361
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
361 points (97.1% liked)
News
23296 readers
2319 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Yeah, there are plenty of other places you can live though.
There are, but you can't make a living there.
It's all proportional.
Let's say you want to live in a low cost of living state:
https://www.ramseysolutions.com/real-estate/cheapest-states-to-live-in
Mississippi.
OK, I don't know why anyone would want to live there, but sure, let's look at the numbers.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MS/BZA115221
Per capita income in past 12 months (in 2021 dollars), 2017-2021 - $26,807
Persons in poverty, percent - 19.1%
https://www.zillow.com/home-values/34/ms/
"The average Mississippi home value is $174,932."
You aren't buying a $175K house making $12.54 an hour. It's not happening.
You need to use median household income, not per capita. It's $49,111 in Mississippi according to your source.
The ratio of home price to household income is typically between 4 and 5 in the US, so the median family should be able to afford the median house in Mississippi.
Household income is absolutely not the right metric to use here, because it'll always be proportional to the cost of the house out of necessity.
For example, if the cost of a house goes up relative to individual income, then more people in the family need to start working more hours, and more people live with roommates.
Household income stays proportionally the same, always, but individual income shows you how much people are struggling.
No, it's not the right metric. Which is why people don't use it.
Imagine you make $160K and buy the nicest house you can afford with that income.
Then you get married, and your spouse makes $100K. Your household income has increased to $260K, which means you can afford an even nicer house.
Your per capita income has decreased to $130K. By your logic, you can't afford a nicer house. In fact, with a second income you might no longer be able to afford your current house. That's nonsense.
When multiple people live in a house they all have the opportunity to contribute to paying for it. Some may contribute a lot, some (like children) may contribute nothing. The house you can afford depends on the total amount everyone contributes, aka household income.
This doesn't make sense. The cost of a house is fixed when you buy it. It won't ever go up while you live there.
People didn't used to need a second income to afford a house. Now they do.
Household income doesn't show that change. Individual income does.
The median income for a single-income family is $78K. That's enough to afford a house that costs $310K-$390K.
The average individual income in Michigan, where houses are actually selling for around $300k, is $34,768. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MI/INC110221
That doesn't give the median, but it's lower. Those numbers are always thrown off by a few rich people.
When everyone needs a separate individual house that they refuse to share, then per capita income will be relevant.
But in the real world, people buy houses because they want to share them with their family. On average, 2.5 people live in a single house. And the median household income is $63K in Michigan.
So if you really want to look at per capita income, that means there is $87.5K (2.5 x $35K) available to buy a house, which is easily enough to afford a $300K home.
Again, families didn't used to need 2 incomes to buy a house.
Saying that households can still afford houses is tautological. Of course they can, or they wouldn't be a household.
Who said they need two incomes?
You insist on using per capita income for some reason. That means that even in a single earner family, the income is considered to be divided equally among the family members.
If you are a single earner making $160K in a family with two adults and two kids, then when using per capita income you consider all four family members as making $40K each. That's the definition of per capita.
And that's why it's nonsense to say that per capita income of $40K is not enough to afford a house. A family of five with per capita income of $40K would be in the top 10%.
Household income is total family income, regardless of whether there is one earner or more than one. And it's not tautological. If your household income is very low, then your family may not be able to afford to buy a house.
If your family can't afford to buy a house, then your family doesn't get counted as a household.
That's absolutely not true. A household is one or more people who live in a housing unit. They can be homeowners or renters.