570
Trump, Who Destroyed Roe, Thinks He Can Run As an Abortion 'Moderate' in 2024
(www.rollingstone.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
570 points (96.3% liked)
politics
19144 readers
1768 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Don't underestimate him.
He beat an elderly, uninspiring, career politician against all odds once and he'll do it again. People have short memories, and won't remember the worst of his tenure
Already seen it. I don't love Biden, but he's done "okayish" at most things. Every time the economy comes up, people start missing Trump despite the fact he was the one that destroyed it
Even worse are the people saying they won't vote for Biden in 2024 because they don't agree with him 100% on certain issues when Trump would be even worse on those issues.
I understand not liking a politician completely. Hillary wasn't my first pick in 2016 and Biden wasn't my first pick in 2020. However, when it became clear that they were the nominee, I backed them over Trump. I'm sure some of these people will back Biden if/when he's the nominee, but a lot of them are declaring that they will sit out the elections if Biden is the nominee because they want things done differently. Meanwhile, if Trump is elected - say, because some left wing voters stay home - these issues will be treated a whole lot worse!
You can count in those who are angry about Palestine here. They are now anti-Biden but can't seem to understand that Biden at his worst is still better than Trump at his best.
This drives me crazy. Having an essentially neutral stance on anything in the Middle East should be the preferred stance of any US President at this point. It is a no-win quagmire.
There are a few geopolitical aphorisms that Western empires have discovered the hard way and that the US should remember (but probably won't because, you know, US exceptionalism):
Never invade Russia. Never invade Afghanistan. Never fight a land war in Asia. Add to that, never invest any political capital in the Middle East. There is just no winning these conflicts and it is delusional to try. The only way to win conflicts like that is the way Stalin and Mao did it, and that is not our way. These places are the very definition of quagmire for western powers.
Now, imagine if Trump managed to win the next election because young Democratic voters are mad about Biden's stance on Israel/Palestine and decide to stay home on election day. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Why is it always progressives who have to hold their nose and "vote blue no matter who"? Centrist Democrats have been driving the car for decades. If you don't let me pick even one stop in 30 years then eventually I'm going to jump out of the car and you'll have to extort gas money from someone else when I do. What you keep asking us to do isn't compromise, it's to stay in an abusive relationship where you get to make all the rules and we deal with it in silence. That only works for so long.
It's because there aren't enough progressives. I vote as progressive as I can in primaries. For some races it has paid off, and for others, well maybe next time.
Try building an actual third party. Not by putting someone up for President every 4 years. That's a waste of time, money, and effort. Get people into school boards, city councils, and county comptroller. Then aim for state congress and other positions at the state level. Now push for changing the voting system to something that doesn't have a glaring problem like First Past the Post does.
A huge chunk of the changes progressives want are better done at the state and local level, anyway. Until then, we'll keep getting what we get at the federal level.
There is a reason the #GOP is making #RCV illegal where they can.
Just an aside, Massachusetts voted 'no' for RCV a few years ago. I was surprised.
And why the alternative voting systems that do pass are things like RCV that have the lowest likelihood of electing a third party and can still be gamed to spoil the Dems
IRV-RCV is the easiest to understand, but the one we know almost certainly will never make a third party relevant in the US. But it's the only alternative anyone is willing to talk about. Then the GOP makes it illegal anyway.
Something actually effective will simply never pass.
Because we're a minority and the options are the party that now gives us significant representation for our demographic (103 members of the House, and 1 (sadface) senator) or the party that thinks anyone left of "moderate-right" should be thrown out of a helecopter over the ocean.
The US is designed to change slowly, and even fixing that is designed to take time.
No. What we're asking you to do is pick the loveless relationship where your party buys you supermarket flowers once a year over Jeffery Dahmer. The Dems don't abuse us. We just don't have the votes and constitutents to do something worthwhile. You do realize that if a moderate compromises too progressive, they get replaced with a Republican, right?
So why don't we fight in-party for more representation and educate voters that we're not the boogey man, instead of threatening to murder the whole country to get our way like the bloody Repubs do?
Because of the electoral college. That forces a two-party system. Which is why we're in this terrible situation.
It also does nothing to stop a progressive from running as a democrat.
Stunt candidates like Jill Stein are grifters who do not give a single solitary fuck about the state of the world, and anyone considering a candidate like that is also extremely unlikely to run themselves.
I have friends who voted for Nader. They thought they were making a statement too. Then we got into Iraq II and they were very upset by it. We also got John "fuck voting righs" Roberts and Samuel "bitches be hoes" Alito out of the deal. Don't be stupid.
Watching a bunch of tiktok gronks give their brilliant hot takes on how they don't have to vote for Biden is like watching a drunken fratboy who's holding everyone's phones dancing on a cliff rim because someone told them not to. Stupid fuck. It doesn't work like that.
It's plurality (a.k.a. FPTP) voting that forces a 2-party system. The main problem with the electoral college is that it gives a structural advantage to voters in low-population states, and those voters are overwhelmingly aligned with Republicans.
Funny how Biden turned out to be a lot less centrist than we were expecting. The pendulum is swinging left, and if we don't keep pushing in the right direction the progress will stop. Just because we're not getting everything we want right now doesn't mean we're not in the process of getting there. So stop bitching about how you don't have the perfect candidate right now. Vote in the primaries for the most progressive candidates you can find, and then in the general election vote for the best candidate, even if it's not your preferred choice.
Adulthood is about dealing with the world as it is, not the world we insist we should have. We have to be the adults in the room when no one else is willing.
And in case anybody is wondering about the Republicans not being held to the same standard, that's a consequence of the fact that the changes progressives want require passing new legislation, whereas the changes Republicans want can be achieved through obstruction and sabotage.
Just to clarify, I do want to hold Republicans to the same standards. I want their accountability to be conducted through electoral defeats and removing them from power. As difficult as it is to reform the Democrats into the progressive party we need them to be, such a feat is impossible with modern Republicans.
Oh, sure, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. My comment was more about the practical/structural circumstances that allow them to get away with acting the way they do rather than being about how people feel about it, though.
I wasn't assuming you were criticizing anything but Republican behavior. I merely wanted to add on to your comment.
Which is why centrist Democrats saw the polling data saying Bernie Sanders performed better against Trump than Clinton or Biden and decided to throw their support behind him in both elections rather than forcing us to stick with the candidate they wanted, right? Wait a minute...
More to the left than expected, but I wasn't expecting much. That's not a win.
It's not perfect, therefore it's not enough? Seriously?
You should read this: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Nirvana-Fallacy
I didn't claim that. I voted for Biden, and I expect to do so again. I would very much like a better candidate. Tossing around logical fallacies isn't a good look when you're also jumping to conclusions.
What is the viable option, then?
Tell me you don't understand math & game theory without telling me you don't understand math & game theory.
Let me fix that for you:
Due to the corruption of the Electoral College and even though he lost the popular vote, Trump beat an elderly, uninspiring, career politician.
ETA: Enough with the "well golly gee dontcha know that is how it works in the US" as if that justifies it. Let's accept it for what it was: a way for slave owners to have greater influence than their state's population otherwise allowed.
Yes, correct, he won the election.
You do realize that how you win an election in the USA, right?
You do also realize that the #fascist #GOP is never going to try to change a system where they have an inherent advantage, right?
It's how you win a process that's commonly referred to as an election.
Biden isn't Clinton. If you hadn't got the news yet, Biden already beat Trump once. No one that voted for Biden in 2020 is voting for Trump in 2024. Biden has to worry about his voters staying home and Trump is the candidate most likely to drive people to vote against him by far.
I would worry about Haley or Christie beating Biden before Trump. The only x factor is that Biden or Trump or both of them could croak in the next year.
My concern is for much more apathy this time around. Between the economy, his age, and his one sided handling of the complex Palestine Israel tragedy, I'm really dreading the outcome already.
I'll vote for Biden again, especially against Trump, but he will never be exciting for me. If Trump continues to lay low during Republican events and doesn't get convicted of some felonies, I could definitely see a scenario where Biden doesn't get the votes and we all stand around mouth agape asking how it happened again.
I'd worry more about Desantis. He might have the charisma of used bubblegum, but there's an awful lot of people who like what's he's selling.