91
Coast Guard aircraft ordered to hold short of runway
(www3.nhk.or.jp)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
91 points (96.0% liked)
World News
39104 readers
2215 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Knew it pretty much had to be this or the controller forgetting they had cleared a jet onto the runway (Los Angeles runway disaster). Less likely the incoming jet landing on the wrong one.
Controller error would maybe be easier to determine a full root cause, very sad for everyone on the coast guard aircraft though.
The Live ATC archive sounds like the controller said "taxi to holding position Charlie 5". With no explicit "hold short runway 34R" there no transcripts yet, and we don't know what the coast guard confirmation response was to the command, but the tower command seems ambiguous at best. It's pretty hard to pick out but the tower call is at about 15:10 in this archive https://archive.liveatc.net/rjtt/RJTT-Twr-TCA-Jan-02-2024-0830Z.mp3
Taxi to holding position is standard ICAO phraseology, they should have been off the runway at C5. Line up and wait would have them on the runway.
US uses different phraseology.
Interesting, we the same sort of language as the US up here in Canada too, but I always assumed it was the same thing the world over. Is there a website or handbook containing ICAO standard language available somewhere? I’m curious what other differences there are
ICAO PANS ATM Doc 4444
It has actually been a cause of runway incursions by US-trained aircrew in the past.
That makes a lot of sense, because like I said in another comment, I’d be more likely to interpret that as “taxi into [takeoff] position and hold”, not “taxi to threshold.” Hopefully the change that comes of this is US/Canadian aviation starts using the ICAO standard phraseology.
While I do think this is a good idea, I don't think it can be attributed as a factor in the accident. The captain of the Japanese Coast Guard had nearly 5 years under his belt and was likely much more familiar with ICAO phraseology than what is used in North America.
You're probably right, I’m being too quick to jump to conclusions.
As an aside, I find it a little ironic that most of the world follows ICAO phraseology, yet Canada, home to ICAO’s headquarters, does not.
Thank you for pointing this out.
I had also looked into it in more detail, and came to the same conclusion. In the ICAO quick reference guide they provide an almost identical example:
I've clarified this in my analysis.
The official transcript was shared in a press conference:
I've put together a detailed write-up here.
I couldn’t make sense of anything in that recording, but if you’re right about the tower call, then that sounds a lot more like “taxi into position and hold” than “taxi and hold short of runway.”
It's actually pretty impressive that there weren't more lives lost. The whole situation sucks and should've been avoided, but once it happened, I'm surprised it was "just" five
It's a testament to safety standards in new planes. The A350 has tons of fire safety implemented and I believe is actually one of the first ones to have this amount of safeguards against fires spreading quickly.
Yeah only the Coasties lost anyone, surprised all passengers made it off of the air bus with the way that fireball went up.