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this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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You shouldn't take the actions of genocidal, colonizing settlers and generalize them to all Israelis. It's completely incorrect to suggest that all Israelis want to exterminate the Palestinians. As small as they are, there are left wing groups that want to find reconciliation and cooperation. And plenty of youth have refused their compulsory service with the IDF.
It also makes no sense for the Israelis to think they're superior to the Palestinians -- only half of Israelis trace their ancestry from European Jews. The other half have the same ancestry as the Palestinians. They're all semites.
You're far too eager to condemn people by association, who may very well have the same beliefs as you. These are the same logical fallacies that lead to ubermensch beliefs in the first place.
I highly respect people such as Gideon Levy and other speaking out against the atrocities and refusing military service. If all israelis were like that then this conflict would already be over. But most israelis are currently voting right wing governments in power. Most israelis even support the current genocide.
There were even people killed by Hamas that were peace activists. Which is incredibly sad. But the fact remains that all those good people are completely outnumbered and despite their peaceful activism israel has moved more and more towards full on Nazism the last few year.
They believe Palestinians are Arabs not Semites.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
full on Nazism
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I'm not disputing any of that. I'm just saying we shouldn't tar Levy and the others with the same brush. And like you said, the people being killed by Hamas are not just the genocide supporters.
Think about how this conflict is going to end. When we look at the most likely outcomes:
Status quo continues, and just kicks the can back down the road until one of the other outcomes
Israeli completely genocides Palestinians and colonizes Gaza and West Bank on their bodies. Some survive as refugees, but most of them die. Hamas is mostly destroyed, but its rich leaders in the UAE and similar countries drink champagne and live it up just fine.
Enough Israelis vote for a left wing regime that seeks reconciliation, and recognizes they have to move past the history of violence for it to end.
Odds are, Israel is not going to be destroyed or ended. The best chance of peace relies on the Israelis who understand the power dynamic places the impetus on them to stop the violence. To that end, it's unhelpful to blanket label all Israelis as genocide supporters. Because if that's true, Palestine has no hope.
How were the Nazi's stopped? Did we kill every single German in existence?
Are the Ukranians trying to slaughter every single Russian to stop the invasion?
israel will never end its genocide voluntarily. If an israeli isn't supporting Zionism and speak out they are getting arrested. There's no way to get any political change going in a regime this dictatorial.
Palestinians are very open to negotiation, but israel is the party holding all the power, and refuses to give the Palestinians a land. The 700.000 in the west bank prove how willing israel is to seek peace.
There is only one side preventing peace, and it's israel. Their illegal government must be disbanded, but it doesn't look like they are going to do it voluntarily.
Do you believe it is realistic to achieve a situation like Nazi Germany, where several countries take control of the government and administer the area for a few decades? Without any subjugation, and with economic aid from the administering countries?
If you have a way to do that, I am genuinely interested in hearing it. As long as it seems unviable however, regime change is the best option. Netanyahu's government failed to protect people from Hamas attack, kidnappings, and their own army killed Israelis. If there was ever a time to foment a change, it's now.
Most Israelis agree with their governments crimes. Most Israelis are racist and supremacists. I recommend you listen to Gideon Levy here https://youtu.be/3EtNFXL_ykg
Even if so though, this just perpetuates the problem. This is why the conflict won't stop.
Most of Group A thinks that most of Group B are supremacists, and condones the killing of B. The members of B who aren't supremacists and are killed anyway by association see all of Group A as supremacists who want them dead, so they condone the killing of A, even those that disagree and don't think that all of B are supremacists.
This isn't going to stop until people see each other as individuals. They'll create justifications to kill each other until one of them ceases to exist. It falls on Israel to seek reconciliation, or this violence is just going to keep going.
There were multiple peace offers by the Arabs, such as the Arab Peace Initiative 22 years ago. Israel has always rejected a two-state solution.
Do you think the Irish should have given up on fighting for freedom?
Just to be clear, we both agree that Israel is the one causing the problem here, and the one that holds all the cards.
And unless I'm mistaken, that peace initiative did have a prominent Israeli figure there supporting a two state solution, right? I thought this was when Netanyahu boosted Hamas initially to kill the two state talks and literally kill that Israeli negotiator.
My point is that we need Israelis like them. There can be no peaceful resolution unless Israelis want peace -- or, at least, want the fighting to stop. That's what happened with the Irish, isn't it? They didn't physically defeat the UK army.
Do you see what I'm saying? Even if most Israelis are supremacists, our enemy is not all Israelis. If we blindly kill people based on their countrymen the only solution left is total annihilation.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." It is really up to Israel, and unfortunately every illegal settlement, every blockade, every arrest and assassination, is prove that they are forcing Palestinians to choose the latter.
Ideally there would be either a 2-state solution or a 1 democratic state for both people. Both scenarios are unpopular in Israel.
We need to boost Israelis who support those solutions. They may be unpopular, but we need to change that to have a peaceful resolution. The Israeli government's failure to stop the Hamas attack creates an opportunity for us to convince Israelis they need to make peace if they don't want this to continue.
Plus, I don't think Israelis are being told the whole picture. Hamas and Netanyahu both want the fighting to continue, and they'll tell selective truths to make that happen. I read a great article that talked about how Palestinians were lied to and made to believe that a prison had been taken down -- so they were celebrating in the streets and having parades. The Palestinians didn't know about the innocents that were killed and kidnapped. This footage was shown by Israeli news media without context, which made many think the Palestinians were celebrating the death of innocents.
First and foremost, we need to win the information war. We can't let either of them continue to be misled like this.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/3EtNFXL_ykg
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.