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this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
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If Biden reschedules (or even better legalizes — I know this is a larger challenge legally) cannabis and takes a harder stance against Israel, I think he would win most of the key states he needs to win the election. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, Michigan, Arizona, and to a lesser degree Georgia will determine this election. The rest of the states are locked in. A 1% swing can mean the difference to prevent a dictatorship.
Don't underestimate domestic pro-Israel agents' ability to assassinate a US politician's political career. Lemmy is not the American media, and the latter is still largely supporting Israel's campaign.
Also, I genuinely don't think most Americans care all that much to the degree it would affect their support of Biden.
I'm struggling to think of anyone I know who is so upset about Israel they would consider throwing the country to Trump, and I know a lot of people that have very strong opinions on Israel.
It just doesn't track. If you're against Israel's actions, you're probably also not keen on fascism, racism, and authoritarianism...so logically, you're not keen on letting Trump win.
According to the census, 1.1% of Americans are Muslim and many Muslim leaders are encouraging their base not to vote for Biden. They aren’t voting for Trump either but since Muslims lean heavily democrat, a non vote is the same as voting for Trump in a swing state. It isn’t that they want Trump and authoritarianism, it’s that they are protesting against the US support for Israel.
Source: https://apnews.com/article/muslim-swing-state-biden-vote-fb3b93f465ed6fd34a901c269a084a90
Well that there is a failure of Muslim leadership.
Hatred is often a self destructive thing. Not voting for Biden increases the probability that Trump will win which will be a very bad thing for Muslims in the US. So they're willing to cause themselves harm over their hatred of Israel.
Maybe it's time people stop listening to leaders that want to sacrifice the people they lead to make themselves look like strong men?
I certainly do not disagree with you. What the Muslim leaders are doing is certainly stupid as Trump will be far worse for their people in the Middle East. I am just relaying the information that is out there about their current agenda.
I think it's too soon to tell really. There's people saying a lot of things out of emotion but emotions tend to fade. It's easy to say you hypothetically won't vote for Biden to exert pressure right now, but when facing the cold hard reality of the potential for a Trump presidency which emotion takes precedence.
Mostly this thing is dependent on Hamas being decisively defeated a few months before the election so people will no longer have the most documented war in history on their screens making them upset.
How the fuck is refusing to support genocide "hatred"?
US foreign policy over multiple decades has hammered home for Muslims that both parties froth at the mouth to murder them and their families. It's only natural that we won't vote for either of those murderers. I know I'll personally be voting for the Green Party, and the only thing that could get me to consider voting for a Democrat ever again would be if the President turned himself, Obama, and George W. bush over to The Hague to stand trial for their murderous wars.
Yea sadly. Even just looking at israel/gaza Trump would do at least as bad as biden and probably worse.
Wow that's some straight up antisemitism right there. Sorry, but there isn't some secret Jewish Cabal controlling the world.
Go outside and touch some grass, ok?
Did you misread end a political career for murder? AIPAC absolutely holds political sway in this country. It is no theory or secret.
Sigh.
Saying there's a strong pro-Israel lobby is not antisemitism.
Sigh.
Promoting conspiracy theories involving Jews being puppet masters that control your government is textbook Goebbels kind of shit.
They weren't claiming that jews are puppet master overlords that control our governments
They were claiming that Israel has a strong political lobby that can do a lot of political damage to politicians that don't align themselves with Israel.
They do this by doing exactly what you're doing. Claiming or implying that anybody against Israel or the pro-Israel lobby is an antisemite.
I'll remind you that "jewish people" and "Israel" are not the same thing.
You need to tell that to the people that are shootiing at synogogues, trying to burn down jewish businesses. There is a Pro-Palestinian movement in my city that are protesting a Jewish community instead of protesting the Israeli consulate that's in this city. Maybe tell them they should be protesting the consulate not the jewish communtiy because they don't seem as enlightened as you are to understand the distinction between Israel and Jews in other countries.
But you aren't going to do that, are you? Could upset your friends in your movement if you criticize their actions.
The Palestinian movement has proven the need for a group to lobby for the well being of Jews in the US. If you won't speak out against the antisemitic activity that's occurring in the Palestinian movement because you're too busy spreading conspiracy theories on the internet, then yeah there needs to be some group that's able to talk about these issues to those in power that are able to protect communities that are in danger from your allies in your movement.
I never said antisemitism doesn't exist. Neither did the person above. Nor did anybody else.
You're bringing that up now as a distraction. Criticising the actions of the regime in Israel, a regime that has openly stated they want to see the eradication of all Palestinians, is not antisemitism.
"My" friends in "my movement"? What are you talking about? I'm not involved in a movement against Jewish people.
If you're referring to me being against the genocide being carried out by Israel, then yes, I'm against that.
But it's not really a "movement", it's the default. I guess with that line of thinking I'm a part of all kinds of "movements" - the "anti-paedophilia movement", the "I don't like kale movement", the "people who think alligators are scary movement", the "people who dislike chores movement", etc.
I'm not spreading any conspiracy theories, and calling out Israel for committing genocide is not antisemitism.
You are brainwashed. You are sympathetic of literal Nazi behaviour.
You claim others are falling for propaganda and yet here you are saying that Israel's genocide isn't genocide. I guess you think Russia's invasion of Ukraine is merely a "special military operation", too?
Wow I bow to you're impressive use of tautological fallacy.
I think Russia started a war to send young people to die to restore some old map that never existed in their lifetimes. Just like Hamas is doing. I think Hamas is using the same Iranian made weaponry that Russia is currently using. You're so obsessed with bullshit internet conspiracies, you aren't even seeing the obvious.
The Nazis were the antisemitic guys in WWII. Maybe crack open a history book an read things other than what the internet is pushing at you. You may see some parallels. The Nazis talked a lot like Hamas talks now. Look at the photos of German cities at the end of WWII. Were the people dropping the bombs on those cities the ones committing genocide? Or were the people that were living in those bombed out buildings committing genocide? If you're only looking at images and repeating what you're told to say, you might say the allies committed genocide because look at the destruction of those cities! Look at the number of civilian casualties! If you said that Goebbels would be proud.
OR maybe this is just something that happens in places that put a genocidal regime in power.
Remember the strongmen of Hamas are right now hiding underground leaving the population of Gaza at the mercy of an army they claim to be committing genocide. Why would these brave fighters that say that becoming a martyr is the thing they want the most be behaving in this way? If Hamas came to the surface for a final glorious battle with the IDF it would all be over wouldn't it? So why don't they do that, if as they claim, Israel is committing genocide?
Not even Hamas really thinks Israel is committing genocide. So why do you?
Or maybe Hamas does think Israel is committing genocide and they're choosing to hide underground and just let it happen. Then why do the Palestinian people not turn against them?
Propaganda tends to fall apart when you think about it for five minutes.
You're just throwing shit at the wall man. You slap together strawmen in the form of a rhetorical question assigning a obviously weak position to the other commenter, over and over again. Why?
They weren't defending the targeting of civilians in WWII.
They weren't arguing that Hamas is not antisemitic.
They weren't claiming Hamas is brave or pure in spirit.
They don't claim Hamas has justification.
They don't justify acts of destruction and terrorizing Jewish communities.
On and on and on. Do you always operate this way?
Yes, yes they do. You are dealing with someone who has fashioned there entire rhetorical style after the Gish Gallop. They will absolutely never engage honestly with any of your arguments or criticisms because they want to poison the well by using a constant barrage of heavily regurgitated arguments interwoven with new, but equally myopic ones. Then add on top of that a delusional sense of intellectual superiority sprinkled with a pathological need to justify the "obvious moral superiority of the zionist movement", and you can see where this person is not a good faith actor.
Israel is committing genocide. You are a Nazi.
Removed, implying OP is a "useful idiot".
Rule 3 - Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!
Hi there. Jewish person here. The people you are accusing of being antisemitic are 100% right. AIPAC has controlled the American political stance on Israel for decades.
If you care about American Jews, stop associating them with Israel. That is what is getting us harassed and attacked, being automatically associated with Israel.
Yeah this is the internet and I can claim that I'm a Palestinian that thinks that Netanyahu is completely in the right. Which proves what exactly?
Also note that racism towards "Cosmopolitan Jews" was a way a certain group used as a gateway for people that weren't willing to be antisemitic towards all Jews. But we know how that ended.
So today it's considered to be good and correct to hate "zionist jews" by those who would normally think antismeitsm is wrong. Meanwhile in my city there's an Israeli consullate, but the protesters don't go there, they protest in the middle of a Jewish community, and have attempted to burn down Jewish businesses. While you're distinguishing between "~~cosmopolitan~~ zionist jews" and other jews, there are many people in the Palestinian movement who are not.
We need to stop looking the other way about what this is really about. An antisemitic movement that wants to restore the ethnic makeup of a geographic area to the way it was in a history book by the use of extreme violence. "Blood and soil", "from the river to the sea" same shit different century.
I'm not a Jew but my grandfather fought in a war against people that did the same things the Palestinian movement is doing right now. Jews went along with the movement my grandfather fought against too, you know. So the same bullshit from a century ago and how it affected my grandfather means a bit more than your unverifiable claims about being a jew. This ain't about you, this is about fascists trying to burn down Jewish businesses in the city I live in after my grandfather sacrificed a lot to fight against that kind of evil.
Now go on and make excuses for the violent actions of the fascists in your movement like a good useful idiot.
You are welcome to look at my comment history and see how many other times I have talked about being Jewish.
I really don't care. There were Jews that joined the Nazi party. Historically being Jewish hasn't exactly been a prophylactic against being a part of antisemitic movements. You may think you can win over the violent elements in a movement to only hate a subset of Jews so you'll be fine. But when there's a night of the long knives you find out only the opinions of those with the knives really count in these kinds of movements. And they aren't going to care that you were "one of the good ones" when the knives come out.
They already don't seem to care what kind of Jew goes to the synagogues they shoot at.
So first I'm not a Jew and now I'm a Jewish Nazi?
On the internet nobody knows you're a dog.
You can be whatever you want to be. Not sure why you're playing the role of useful idiot for an antisemitic movement, but if you want that to be your internet persona, then no one can stop you. Just like no one can stop me from pretending from posting what I want even if I might be a dog in real life. Woof!
Got it, so I'm a Nazi Jew who's a useful antisemite. Fascinating.
???
A lot of people think that how they identify makes them magically immune to propaganda. The reality is thinking you can't be scammed because of who you are makes you more vulnerable to being scammed.
"I'm a good ole country boy, some city slicker can't fool me!" says the guy voting for Trump.
The only sane comment in this entire thead.
My looming thought is* we prevent a dictatorship...for now.
You mean if they were stupid enough to try nominating any of the candidates Biden beat 4 years ago? Stupid enough to gamble on a new candidate, ignoring the fact Biden already beat Trump once? Stupid enough to ignore the fact the fact that the incumbent president more often than not wins reelection?
You're right, democracy is on the line, now's the best time to fucking gamble it away.
Well said
But we did. The Inflation Reduction Act was not only the most climate friendly bill in US history, it bolstered domestic green energy companies so much that Canada and Europe had to pass similar legislation to stay competitive (and keep companies from relocating).
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that Israel is going to keep killing babies, and the US president is going to support Israel, no matter who it is, for the foreseeable future.
Your choice is if you'll willingly accept the burden and do whatever you can nonetheless to help the most people domestically and globally -- or if you'll pretend you aren't carrying the burden, and you're willing to throw women, black Americans, brown Americans, gay Americans, trans Americans, etc under the bus to maintain that delusion.
No matter what you do, if you pay taxes in the US, you're funding infanticidal Israeli weapons. Democracy is shitty like that. The majority of people are uncomfortable with all the civilian deaths, but a majority still wants to fund weapons for them. Don't like it? Grit your teeth, try to make a difference, and minimize any unnecessary support to Israel.
There will be no leftist utopia except from the labor of blood soaked hands from those who understand there's no other choice. I can only hope that one day my kids or their kids will be able to judge me without any hypocrisy, because we successfully made a world free of these awful realities.
Going to tell you: History is not kind to leftists who kowtow to Fascists because they’ll “burn it down” (Look up Social Fascism)
They end up with bullets in their heads rather than glorious revolution.
Ah yes, pointing out historical facts is bootlicking. You’re not a serious person.
In case you're wondering, for future reference, the reason why you never seem to find progressives who'll vote for Biden or support the mainstream Democrat candidate is because when we try to earnestly explain our viewpoint and how we think we can help the most people, we just run into non serious memelords.
But on the bright side, it wasn't wasted time on my part. People still saw what I had to say, and you made it look all the wiser. Shame that you've only continued to drain supporters from your "burn it down" caucus though.
Biden didn't beat shit. He had the DNC machine tell all the other candidates to drop out and put their full support behind Biden and have the media machine pump out story after story about Biden's miraculous turnaround. Biden beat the other candidates in the same way Putin scored 8 goals in a hockey game.