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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
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vegan
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:vegan-liberation:
Welcome to /c/vegan and congratulations on your first steps toward overcoming liberalism and ascending to true leftist moral superiority.
Rules
No plant-based diet bullshit or promotion of plant-based capitalism.Veganism isn't about you, it's about historical materialist anti-speciesism, anti-racist animalization, and animal liberation. Ethical vegans only.No omni apologists or carnists.Babystepping is for libs, and we're not here to pat you on the back. Good faith questions and debate about how to fight for animal liberation are allowed.No advocating violence to any species for any reason.If you think this is negotiable GTFO. This includes but is not limited to animal testing, slaughter, and mass euthanasia. Anything that promotes speciesism or the commodification of animals will be removed.Use Content Warnings and NSFW tags for triggering content.Especially if a comrade requests it.Questions about diet belong inc/food. It's also a great place to share recipes.In all sections of the site, you must follow theHexbear.net Code of Conduct.
Resources
Animal liberation and direct action
- Animal Liberation Press (ALF)
- Wiki on Ethical Veganism
- Wiki on the Animal Liberation Front
- Wiki on Total Liberation
- Different approaches to AL direct action
- Earth First! manual and tactics
- Support prisoners of conscience: Vegan Prisoners Support Group (UK)
- If someone tells you to put some paint on your hands, tag some buildings and then go turn yourself into the police - your "rebellion" is a fucking op
Read theory, libs
- 18 Theses on Marxism and Animal Liberation
- Racism as Zoological Witchcraft: A Guide to Getting Out
- Animal Liberation
- The Death of Nature
- The Case for Animal Rights
- Anarchism and Animal Liberation
- Total Liberation
- The Unbearable Whiteness of Milk
- Speciesism as a Precondition to Justice
- Beasts of Burden: Animal and Disability Liberation
- Citations Needed on media portrayals of animal rights activists
- The Jungle
Vegan 101 & FAQs
- Black Vegans Rock resources page
- Animal Rights: The Abolitionist Approach FAQs
- 30 Non-Vegan Excuses & How to Respond to Them
- Guide to justifications for harming and exploiting animals
- Your Vegan Fallacy Is
- The Radical Left’s Top 10 Objections to Veganism (And Why They Suck)
- Animal Liberation Front FAQs
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That's just moralizing for no reason. Meat eating has been a part of most of the world's cuisines for a very long time, so having substitutes to help more people transition is a very good idea. This point has been repeated a ton of times, but many people are ND and can't change their habits very easily, or have texture / taste sensitivities
sure, but the point stands. for a lot of us, the idea of eating animals is gross. it is a viscerally disgusting thing. we don't eat animals not only because it is wrong but also because it is disgusting. the idea of eating stuff that is intended to be as close as possible to something disgusting is not appealing in the slightest.
and the comment is not "moralizing." no one is saying it would be evil to eat imitation baby. it's just ... why would you want to?
I don't eat animals because it's wrong. They tasted great to me on the day I stopped. It's true that my taste has changed as a consequence of not eating animals - after a restaurant miscommunication I discovered that butter tastes weird now - but focusing on that is counterproductive for external messaging. Carnists eat flesh and think it tastes good. You can't convince them that it tastes gross and trying to do that will have you dismissed as a picky eater.
what fucking external messaging this is !vegan@hexbear.net, an explicitly vegan forum where carnists aren't allowed to post on a website where being anti-vegan is explicitly against the rules. this is internal chatter, not external messaging. we're not talking to carnists, we're talking to each other. stop jumping down people's throats for speaking as though carnist brain is not the default
The reason I'm vegan is to get other people to do it. This comm isn't invite-only; carnists see it on Hexbear and in federated servers, and carnists come in and comment all the time. It's fine that you personally are disgusted by the taste of flesh, but that has no moral weight. Transpose it slightly: a lot of tomatoes are picked by slaves. If we were trying to organize a tomato boycott we wouldn't want "tomatoes taste like shit" to be widely agreed on by boycotters. In fact we would want to discourage that talk, to prevent people from saying "you guys don't care about slavery you just don't like tomatoes". And it would be frustrating for boycotters to constantly hear others in the movement go on about how tomatoes are disgusting and how could anyone include that garbage in their meals to begin with, while they're busy trying to make some pathetic bell pepper red sauce.
Idk I mostly want to uncouple the correct moral outrage at production from how stuff actually tastes. When carnists ask me if I miss meat, that's an opportunity to say "sure, but it's really important to not eat it" not "nah I never liked it anyway". Maybe I'll feel differently in a few more years; right now when I hear someone say they're viscerally disgusted by like, seitan because it's sort of vaguely like meat, I find it hard to believe.
No one said it did. In fact I explicitly said it doesn't. Who in the world are you talking to?
I'm talking to you and your defense of this original comment:
This is obviously a moral claim. They're not saying imitation baby would be gross because baby flesh tastes gross. I'm sure it doesn't; veal is eaten across the world. They're saying it'd be gross because you're not supposed to eat babies. Similar arguments are made against BDSM play that simulates harming others. To defend it, you wrote:
The obvious answer is it tastes good; these are the foodways we were brought up with.
If the taste of meat has no moral weight, why bring up your "visceral disgust" for it? Why would /u/worldonaturtle compare it to baby flesh? If it has no moral weight, then who cares? I don't like lion's mane mushrooms, if somebody was promoting a lion's mane sub to reduce lion's mane farming deforestation* I simply wouldn't have anything to say. Good on them, wasn't my problem to begin with. Nobody gives a shit whether I happen to like the mushrooms, especially those people who are working on a substitute, and going on about how I think it's viscerally disgusting would be needlessly antagonizing.
*I assume this is not a real problem
Actually a funnier example is music. Meat is Murder was a good album but Morrissey sucks and they're making a lab grown Morrissey. You think Morrissey sucks but you only listen to folk punk anyway? Well fuck off lol, who cares