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why are incels frowned/hated upon?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2024
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I can’t believe what I’m reading in this thread.
You are judging half of the population on their physical makeup.
This makes me sick.
Fuck trying to be better than those who have come before us. Fuck trying to build a better future.
I hope our paths never cross.
No, half the population is being judged on their statistical likelihood to commit violence. Their physical makeup is only part of that. Most of it is a cultural entitlement, as evidenced by so many on here getting butthurt that people might be afraid of them because of their life experiences.
I agree with you. This sort of blatant bigotry has to be a right wing psyop to split the left or something. No way that "liberal" minded people could think it's rational to discriminate against half the population
Lmao
You’re really missing the point here and getting offended over reality for half the population.
Enough men are a danger to women and children that it forces women to be wary of all men. Which is the smart and right thing to do.
If you’re in a room with 100 people and you know 10 of them are extremely violent with extremely short fuses that can be triggered by anything from a casual look to an uninvited ‘hello’’, but you don’t know which 10 it is, how are you going to socially navigate that room? Are you going to pretend like everyone in that room is a friend and make strong eye contact with everyone saying hello? Or are you going to tread lightly?
That’s the reality women face with men every day.
I know plenty of people who make this same argument for why whites can't trust blacks. Those people are called racists. People who make the argument you're making are called sexists.
No you don’t. Because there isn’t a preponderance of evidence than black people are less trustworthy than non-POC.
Just because an argument sounds similar does not make it the same.
That is true, but is not a universally held belief. Many strongly feel that black people are inherently dangerous and untrustworthy. Others feel the same about Muslims. Or Chinese. Or Russians. Or Jewish people. Or Gypsies.
People who feel that way about those groups are called bigots. You feel that way about men which means you are also a bigot. Not a difficult analysis.
Feelings & beliefs =/= statistics
What do FBI crime stats say about Black Americans?
Statistics are easily misconstrued, and often are
We aren’t talking belief here. What I am saying is based off of empirical evidence.
Why are you being so unapologetically obtuse?
You can use FBI crime statistics to make "empirical" arguments about black Americans. Yet I think we both recognize that would be fallacious
I’m gonna ask you again, why are you being unapologetically obtuse?
If you want to challenge the data I’m citing, do it rather than refusing to engage in good faith.
It isn't obtuse to state with moral clarity that it is always wrong to treat someone differently on the basis of their sex
When there’s a preponderance of empirical evidence that a certain group of people poses a larger risk to another group of people, it validates the decision to approach them with caution.
You’re arguing that women should just ignore the reality that they are likely to be assaulted (remember, 81%) and that the people most likely to assault them are men. It is reasonable and right for women to exercise caution and clarity when engaging with men for that reason. This isn’t hard, it requires a person to be willfully ignorant to disagree with it. Get your feelings out of this matter and look at the reality we live in.
Literally Nazi rationale for 1930s Germany. Or White Americans justification for segregation. Or Israeli justification for genocide against Palestinians
People are people. Immutable traits have no influence on how anyone should ever be treated
In every case you cite there was not a preponderance of empirical data. It was fabricated.
Are you arguing that the data I’m citing is fabricated?
You're saying that the FBI crime statistics demonstrating that more crimes per capita are committed by black Americans than any other race are fabricated?
If so, then shouldn't we similarly disbelieve all similar demographic data?
If not, then shouldn't we segregate black Americans away from the rest of us?
The point is that you are making the arguments of a white supremacist and a segregationist
Yes. I am. But not the way you’re thinking. The data is unreliable for the following, well documented, reasons:
It doesn’t account for socioeconomic disparities, which is a far greater indicator and predictor of crime than race.
It doesn’t acknowledge systemic bias and racism in policing practices, again well documented.
It doesn’t take into account disparities in reporting and data collection.
Ultimately the fbi statistics are in fact questionable for a multitude of reasons, the least of which being that they are direct statistics that don’t take into account underlying causes.
The statistics regarding women and sexual assault are quite straight forward with far fewer underlying questions. The reality is, in fact, that sexual assault is known to be quite under reported and that the numbers we have are known to be understating the issue.
Right and all of these clearly disadvantage black Americans, and specifically black men, for obviously racist reasons.
Why do these not also disfavor men generally for equally bigoted reasons? Are there not fallacious biases regarding the innate criminality of men just as there are fallacious biases regarding the innate criminality of black people?
I’m so done with your bad faith arguments. Jfc.
You’re intentionally obtuse, you ignore the points I’m making, making up fallacious and straw man arguments, ignoring empirical data, and failing to make a single argument with any sort of data to support it. Instead you engage in whataboutism as if it is some gotcha moment that should win me over and start convincing women to stop being cautious around men because if they don’t they’re bigots, when you have made clear time and again that you don’t even understand what bigotry is. Get your shit together and make a valid argument or shut up. Until you do, I’m out.
^false equivalency. Sexists hate men (or women) on principle. That's not what this concept is. You'd know that if you paid attention just a little bit
Treating someone negatively or positively on the basis of their sex is sexism.
Applying a loose definition to a situation to fit your politics is dishonest
Treating someone differently on the basis of sex is sexism. Treating someone differently on the basis of race is racism. This isn't hard
Hey bro, care to have another pointless argument over on https://lemmy.world/post/12636728 about the exact situation this pointless argument was about?
Because guess what, the parent comment of this whole thread actually played out, went badly, and now it's national news.
You're right, this is neither. Wow that is easy