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submitted 8 months ago by Alsephina@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

“I will no longer be complicit in genocide [in Gaza]. I am about to engage in an extreme act of protest,” the man apparently said before setting himself alight and repeatedly shouting “Free Palestine!”

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[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 38 points 8 months ago

This guy is very brave, but everyone taking about the embassy security drawing weapons when they arrive. Of course they would. They don't know what was planned, if it was a suicide bombing gone wrong, our whatever else. I'm not pro cop but I don't understand why people are surprised by this. They are security

[-] zaphod@lemmy.ca 51 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Sure, maybe if they drew their weapons immediately, before his act. That'd make sense. They wouldn't know what he was gonna do.

The trouble is, based on the reporting we have, they drew their guns after he lit himself on fire, not before:

as soon as he was engulfed in flames they started yelling at him to get down on the ground. They even drew their guns on the burning man before someone pushed them to get fire extinguishers to extinguish the fire.

I'm thinking by the time the guy was engulfed in flames he was a little too preoccupied to do much else.

Can you imagine facing a living bonfire, and your first thought is "I should draw my gun and tell them to get down on the ground"? There's genuinely no excuse for that level of inhumanity.

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 13 points 8 months ago

Well yeah I'm not surprised that cops are not there to protect average people and provide them safety, they're there to protect private property.

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 11 points 8 months ago

The embassy security secures the embassy. Whodathunk

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 1 points 8 months ago

Secures the embassy from a man caught on fire (very capable!) and is outside its fence. Could you imagine what would've happened if they weren't there? Yeah, still no threat to the embassy :)

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

You know that now due to hindsight

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 1 points 8 months ago

Real footage of security cops hard at work:

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I see one seeming to be getting medical equipment while one secures the scene. seems very professional.

Did you want to find another screenshot?

I'm not being pro cop here, I'm being anti assuming cops will be helpful buddies when you do things near an embassy. in an era of mass shooters and all sorts of public violence it's no surprise that agents of the state be state agents

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 1 points 8 months ago

Someone had to yell "fire extinguisher not guns!" for them to even consider doing anything other than raise guns at a burning man.

I'm being anti assuming cops will be helpful buddies when you do things near an embassy.

That is the point I make. Never trust cops. They will rarely ever be helpful.

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 0 points 8 months ago

And as I've argued/miscommunicated with folks a few times here: they aren't expected to be so. They aren't there to help. They are there to secure the embassy

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 11 points 8 months ago

What, exactly, would a gun do if he was a suicide bomber?

[-] NielsBohron@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

Stop him before he got any closer to the embassy. Obviously a gun won't stop him from commiting suicide, but it could easily be the difference between one person dying and a much larger act of terrorism

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago

There's a metal fence. What would he even get close to?

[-] NielsBohron@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Considering the security forces had no idea whether he was working alone or what was happening, they obviously didn't think they could rely on the metal fence.

Look, I'm all for a free Palestine and I agree that what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. I also think that voluntary membership in any American or Israeli law enforcement makes them complicit in the heinous acts perpetrated by American cops and the IDF, respectively. I don't know you, but I'd guess that you and I agree a lot more than we disagree on these issues. I'm just saying, from the PoV of the security forces at the Israeli embassy, this was a potential threat to the embassy and their job is literally to prevent threats from harming the embassy. Without any further information to go on, their decision to draw guns first and get the extinguisher second is reasonable.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago

If he wasn't alone what would shooting him accomplish? You still haven't actually presented a compelling reason he needed to be kept under a gun.

I think it's understandable that people untrained for a situation like this would fall back on the default, I know I wouldn't know what to do, but calling that "reasonable" as if it really makes sense in hindsight is a stretch.

[-] NielsBohron@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

If he wasn’t alone what would shooting him accomplish? You still haven’t actually presented a compelling reason he needed to be kept under a gun.

Once Bushnell was on fire and had stopped moving toward the gate/fence, you are correct, he didn't need to be kept under a gun. However, if he had started to move in a threatening way or if he had been working with a larger group, having the guns drawn could have saved crucial seconds if someone else began to act in a threatening way. The security forces simply didn't know what the fuck was happening, and in that situation, it is better to have the guns drawn and to be ready for the worst case scenario.

I think it’s understandable that people untrained for a situation like this would fall back on the default, I know I wouldn’t know what to do, but calling that “reasonable” as if it really makes sense in hindsight is a stretch.

That's fair. I can get behind calling it "understandable" instead of "reasonable"

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Shoot the suicide bomber before a bigger boom. What if there was another person? Another thing? We can't know, they can't know. We know now, due to hindsight.

They are security. They secure scenes. They aren't paramedics.

I am not making pro cop statements here, but all the comments about "ohhh the cop arrived to a dangerous scene with a weapon drawn!" Is like saying "the garbage man picked up the garbage bin when he drove past my house!" Duh!

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 9 points 8 months ago

He's on fire! Shooting him wouldn't stop a bigger boom!

I'll give the cops this: they probably were not trained on what to do if someone lights themselves on fire. They just fell back on basic training.

[-] Gabu@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

It's murica, they weren't trained at all.

[-] lanolinoil@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

They did the one thing they were trained to do -- Pull first ask ~~questions~~ for fire extinguishers later

[-] lanolinoil@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

shoot out the fire or scare the guy so much he stops being on fire -- only options

this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
1339 points (97.8% liked)

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