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this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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They killed soldiers including high ranking officers, they destroyed military equipment and military infrastructure, they did MATERIAL DAMAGE to their military capabilities. The sum of material victories is what wins wars, not fucking vibes on media, you understand this right? JFC it's not that hard. Guy killing himself does NOTHING to Israel military capabilities, NOTHING.
Hey listen comrade, when thousands of brown men die for Palestine they did nothing, But this one white guy setting himself on fire will bring down the empire trust me bro.
White saviour complex at its best.
I forgot about the high ranking officers, good point.
Still, by itself, it didn't change the policial landscape! By itself, it's barely a victory. Some destruction and violence. Some humiliation. Some setbacks, but Israel and its allies could easily recover from it. To call it a material victory, by itself? It's a stretch.
It was a very successful, heroic, hail mary, though. For the mistakes it caused the zionists to commit, and the support it gathered from the international community, it strengthens the Palestinian cause.
By themselves, Palestinians can't achieve a military victory against Israel and its allies. They barely had (and still barely have) support of neighboring Arab countries. Iran isn't an Arab country. Unfortunately media vibes was kind of a last hope, in this case. That's where the material victory was.
Let's hope Mr burning man sparks something bigger than himself.
I wish I could make the point shorter. Thanks for the conversation, comrade.
What? You can't just look at the operation by itself, you also must consider what led to that point and what happens after. You pointed out the impact Oct 7 had yourself.
These events do not happen in a vacuum and should not be considered so.
We're going full circle here.
I agree! My point is: despite the low effectiveness of similar actions (self immolation as a form of protest) in the past, oct7 makes me hopeful that this self immolation case could spark some change, since it's now reasonable to think that conditions may allow for larger implications in the core of imperialism.
I got the point you made here from your other comments and agree, but I guess what I'm missing is what is the point of arguing about the events individually accomplished?
Sure, they appear to us as discrete events, but even this event is tied to the events of Oct 7. It seems pointless to argue that any of these individual events has had relatively little impact on the status quo when they are all connected and the sum total of their impact will be what influences further events.
So what's the point of arguing them individually aside from just finding something to argue about?
It was a response to comrade arguing that this kind of protest is nonsense, and that some sabotaging should have been done.
It reminded me that at first sight, for me, the hamas attack also looked like a nonsense suicidal attack, but later we could make some sense of it.
I was trying to sustain that because oct7 wasn't nonsense, maybe this case wasn't either.
But I can agree some sabotaging would have been welcome. :)