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this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
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I'd love some sauce on that Ü
Sauce.
“Support” might be a strong word, but they don’t view Putin as an enemy.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/05/10/americans-hold-positive-feelings-toward-nato-and-ukraine-see-russia-as-an-enemy/
Support seems to plainly be the wrong word. "Not as an enemy, as a competitor" is definetly not "support". In my opinion calling it that is more than misleading
Oops wrong pic. But I think it also shows how far from this study the claim "30% support putin" is
I mean, I've had a couple people parrot the idea that we should be helping Americans instead of helping Ukraine fight against the occupying Russian forces.
If that isn't supporting Putin, then what is? Is it only support if you blatantly verbalize your support? That's like the people that think Americans aren't racist because we aren't lynching black and brown people in the streets for community entertainment anymore.
They don't condemn Russia or the US leaders that push Putin's agenda here - that's how it's support. How could it be anything else?
To answer that: political view has more options than condemn and support.
Of course, imo, they should condemn putin, his supporters, trum, biden, scholz, macron and the whole idea of those beeing the options of development of our societies.
But its not helpfull for us to tune in on 2 dimensional, under-complex concepts of social development/politics
I understand your point, but I think the logic you are presenting is what is enabling these people. Ask yourself - what is the nuance in the Ukraine war? Fence sitting, and talking out both sides of your mouth about how we should condemn Putin yet also accept there is nuance to these issues is dangerous. It's not complicated. If you don't condemn Putin's actions, you are implicitly accepting/agreeing that Ukraine should be wiped out.
Putin relies on the populace accepting that there is "nuance" to the Ukraine war. Russia has conditioned (or at least is trying to condition) the population (in the west) into adopting this logic but the reality is that there is no nuance to this issue. What nuance could there be to an aggressor invading someone's land?
Have you read that I said "of course they should condemn putin ..."?
What I'm doing is not relativizing the invasion, but the opinions about it.
It's a meta level. I'm not talking about nuances of the war, but nuances of political views. The article and the discussion is on that level.
I agree with your call for clear (and plain coherent/realistic) condemnation of the war. Nevertheless this should not be confused with analyzing how many and how and why people don't see it that way.
Otherwise we give up a better understanding of what people think, which we need in order to find strategies to influence the discours on realities terms. (Reality meaning the reality of conciousness(es) about the war, not the war. That part we already agree on)
Read it back. It kinda seems like all you said was we should criticize both sides, you just listed out leaders instead and hid behind the word, nuance.
You're not really saying anything of substance. You're at risk of being so open-minded your brain's almost falling out.
Maybe, you could've just said there were very fine people on both sides
They are almost certainly a Russian troll. See their comment history.
Ok imma try to get my point across one more time: There are two different layers of reality about the war.
Both layers contain meaningful information.
A bit of info in layer 1: The war is bad.
A bit of info in layer 2: Not all people see that.
We agree on both. Now my point is: We should understand the nuances on layer 2.
Your answer is: "Layer 1 has no nuances"
The war is not the same thing as the opinions about the war.
To influence the discourse, i.e. opinions, it's better to understand the opinions specifically ("in nuances").
To close the discrapancy between misguided public opinion and actual reality, we need to understand the opinions, not confuse its object with its (ideologically structured) representation.