389
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
389 points (98.0% liked)
World News
39167 readers
1146 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Sauce.
“Support” might be a strong word, but they don’t view Putin as an enemy.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/05/10/americans-hold-positive-feelings-toward-nato-and-ukraine-see-russia-as-an-enemy/
They don't condemn Russia or the US leaders that push Putin's agenda here - that's how it's support. How could it be anything else?
To answer that: political view has more options than condemn and support.
Of course, imo, they should condemn putin, his supporters, trum, biden, scholz, macron and the whole idea of those beeing the options of development of our societies.
But its not helpfull for us to tune in on 2 dimensional, under-complex concepts of social development/politics
I understand your point, but I think the logic you are presenting is what is enabling these people. Ask yourself - what is the nuance in the Ukraine war? Fence sitting, and talking out both sides of your mouth about how we should condemn Putin yet also accept there is nuance to these issues is dangerous. It's not complicated. If you don't condemn Putin's actions, you are implicitly accepting/agreeing that Ukraine should be wiped out.
Putin relies on the populace accepting that there is "nuance" to the Ukraine war. Russia has conditioned (or at least is trying to condition) the population (in the west) into adopting this logic but the reality is that there is no nuance to this issue. What nuance could there be to an aggressor invading someone's land?
Have you read that I said "of course they should condemn putin ..."?
What I'm doing is not relativizing the invasion, but the opinions about it.
It's a meta level. I'm not talking about nuances of the war, but nuances of political views. The article and the discussion is on that level.
I agree with your call for clear (and plain coherent/realistic) condemnation of the war. Nevertheless this should not be confused with analyzing how many and how and why people don't see it that way.
Otherwise we give up a better understanding of what people think, which we need in order to find strategies to influence the discours on realities terms. (Reality meaning the reality of conciousness(es) about the war, not the war. That part we already agree on)
Read it back. It kinda seems like all you said was we should criticize both sides, you just listed out leaders instead and hid behind the word, nuance.
You're not really saying anything of substance. You're at risk of being so open-minded your brain's almost falling out.
Maybe, you could've just said there were very fine people on both sides
They are almost certainly a Russian troll. See their comment history.
Ok imma try to get my point across one more time: There are two different layers of reality about the war.
Both layers contain meaningful information.
A bit of info in layer 1: The war is bad.
A bit of info in layer 2: Not all people see that.
We agree on both. Now my point is: We should understand the nuances on layer 2.
Your answer is: "Layer 1 has no nuances"
The war is not the same thing as the opinions about the war.
To influence the discourse, i.e. opinions, it's better to understand the opinions specifically ("in nuances").
To close the discrapancy between misguided public opinion and actual reality, we need to understand the opinions, not confuse its object with its (ideologically structured) representation.
Support seems to plainly be the wrong word. "Not as an enemy, as a competitor" is definetly not "support". In my opinion calling it that is more than misleading
Oops wrong pic. But I think it also shows how far from this study the claim "30% support putin" is
I mean, I've had a couple people parrot the idea that we should be helping Americans instead of helping Ukraine fight against the occupying Russian forces.
If that isn't supporting Putin, then what is? Is it only support if you blatantly verbalize your support? That's like the people that think Americans aren't racist because we aren't lynching black and brown people in the streets for community entertainment anymore.