1483
rule
(lemmy.cafe)
FAQ
Q: why not organize and stop treating the bus as a legitimate entity? why aren’t you working to stop the bus?
A: do both. cut the fuel line. break windows. put oatmeal in the gas tank. but maybe your efforts don’t succeed this election cycle. and if so don’t fucking throw away your vote if it can help your neighbors fucking survive. “harm reduction” is not a political strategy for action. it is a last minute, end of the line decision to save lives, after all other resources have been exhausted.
Not voting is lazy in most circumstances for sure. What I hate is that people equate voting third party with not voting. I'm not voting blue. Y'all can't guilt me into it. I'm voting for a third party socialist. 😏
i gently would encourage you to look into game theory and the far reaching implications of the spoiler effect under first past the post
i do applaud your commitment to morally tenable candidates, however many folks find there is a deeper opportunity for good in the voting process, at least in the current environment, and i generally concur
I appreciate you being nice. I understand the concern you have with the spoiler effect. But our country has been stuck in this lesser evil game for my whole life. That being said I also live in a very blue state. If my state were to go red it won't be because of the few people like that vote third party.
You have to change the voting system if you want to change the game. I suggest volunteering with Election Science to switch your elections to Approval Voting, so you can vote for everyone you like, instead of just the person you hate least.
Yep I know. Sadly elected officials are needed to change the voting system so that's largely unhelpful.
I'd love to have ranked choices voting. But like only the third party candidates would possibly do that. Candidates from team red or blue have nothing to gain by doing that and stand to lose everything by doing it.
They're not needed in every jurisdiction. In some places you can change the voting method through referendum. It does suck when you can't do that though. I still like approval voting over rcv, but anything is better than choose one.
The threat of the spoiler effect could be used to move the Democratic Party's policy left. You're not thinking strategically.
feel free to elaborate im not seeing your vision right now
pretty straightforward
kind of already happening, if on a smaller scale.
to do it full scale as you suggest you’d need a infeasibly huge chunk of capital to run against an incumbent.
Yes exactly this movement!
I am not really suggesting that a third party candidate could win during this election, I agree about the capital. But you can pressure the Democrats to take on leftist policies as much as possible by refusing to vote for Democrats, and voting for a third party alternative.
I honestly don't see another way that Democrats would be prompted to change their policies, as it is they have remained moderate (aka conservative on a global political context). But if Democrats saw that 10% of the vote went to a Socialist, and they lost because of that?? They would change.
Right now the Democrats are catering towards conservative moderates who think that a white nationalist candidate a potentially viable option.
yeah i totally concur and have been consistently in favor of the uncommitted movement. i also think folks voting third party in deep blue states, where the risk of spoiling for a fascist win is low, aren’t incredibly off the mark. i’m not smart enough to understand polster analysis so i can’t pretend to know if these pressures are working, but i do support them.
so i don’t really get where your accusations of me not thinking strategically are coming from lol.
The "game theory" argument is one I see being used mostly by vote-blue-no-matter-who types. And you were trying to dissuade the other commenter from third party voting. So I am genuinely surprised that that is not your position. You were saying that voting third party would have a deleterious impact due to the spoiler effect.
So, you were saying that people should vote for Biden due to game theory, which is a tool to understand strategy. I was telling you you're not thinking strategically because I think that by limiting your analysis to just game theory in this single election cycle, you are missing the strategic possibilities enabled by voting third party.
yeah i guess you just assumed wrong and that there are positions out there with nuance you can’t guess from just a few sentences haha
“game theory” is a real field of study of how individuals work together within a system, so i wouldn’t treat it like it’s a dog whistle which is kind of what looks like happened here
I've seen a lot of vote-who-no-matter who using game theory the way you did, I think if you look for it you might start to notice it!
I think probably everyone is more nuanced than we end up making ourselves seem online 😅
And the difference between that and not-voting is what?
Not counting an air of smug superiority.