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this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
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I find Patriotism incredibly arrogant and somewhat ignorant of the world around you. I don't care where you're from, I only care about decent individuals.
You are confusing patriot and nationalist.
A Patriot loves his country and tries to do what's right for it, as in make it better.
A nationalist is a chauvinist, who believes his country is better than others, and deserves to have power over them. The nationalist is therefore also racist and xenophobe, and prefer isolation rather than cooperation with other countries.
I'm a patriot, but I realize my country has flaws, and some countries are better in some respects. But I still love my country.
Just wanna point out that these words don't necessarily have those connotations globally. When I think of nationalism, I think of anti-colonialism. When I hear patriot, i think jingoist with flag on a pickup. It's totally valid if you wanna use those words with those qualifications but if you happen to be talking to me that's just how I would react to hearing it. Even if it turns out we see eye to eye on everything
Political ideologies can mean very different things in different countries/contexts. Republicans in France or the US are conservatives, broadly in support of the status quo. Republicanism in the UK, or late during the French Monarchy, is a much more revolutionary ideology, interested in upsetting the status quo with policies like electing a head of state. I think nationalist and patriot have similar relative meanings that reflect the nation one is from.
Also worth pointing out that every nationalist identifies as a patriot due to the negative connotations of the former.
Patriotism is supporting the state
Nationalism is supporting the people
Eh... If you live in a company that treats people fairly, is run by the people, for the people, takes care of the poor, and embodies liberty and justice for all, then that's something that you can be proud to be a part of. But unfortunately those are just things they teach school children here, not things that the country actually does.
That would be correct if people would freely choose where they are born. But they don't, so it doesn't make sense.
It does also not make sense if you were born some place and then move to this "better" country: Instead of making it better you leave for somewhere that is already good. How would it ever get better if people just leave?
And those that actively work on making a place better are doing the good thing themselves, not the country. They should be proud of themselves instead.
Most people don't have the power to change their country. Some people are actively persecuted, even to the point of death, by the governments of the countries they live in. I know a lot of refugees and they are all very proud Americans. They're proud they escaped the country they came from, they're proud to be a part of country that accepts them and gives them opportunity, and they're proud of the freedom they have here. As a native born American I can't say that I chose my country, even though I choose to stay, but I respect the feelings of the people who have, and understand why that is a point of pride for them.
The thing is that there is no country that really does that. I'm Finnish and while many things are a lot better, that has at least not been entirely true to this country as long as I have had some real concept of the world around me. At the same time, there is some pride not in as I am proud to be Finnish but I am a little bit proud of how much Finland has accomplished on that front. At least I am when I am not entirely pissed off by the majority of the country because of the shit it is doing.
I used to have no concept of pride in my country of birth and I don't still see it as something to be proud of as I did nothing to end up here. But in the past decade, I have worked in places that have taught me how bad things really can be, especially to part of the population. It is a weird dichotomy to see the worst of your country and still see how it can be better than in many places. It really does give me whiplash in my own head.
I'm in the same boat. Even on this very comment chain I said our country doesn't do those things and then in a comment to a reply I gave examples of how it actually does do those things. It's a special gift and curse to clearly see the gradient, it isn't all black and white.