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The more things change, the more they stay the same
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2024
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Define art? I once saw a piece of fruit in a cage that was supposedly art. All seems like bullshit to me.
It's not art if it's not handmade by a human
/s
Been thinking about it quite a bit
I've come to the conclusion that to me, art is a play on your senses.
A painting plays with your sight
Music plays with your hearing
Food plays with your taste
Dance plays with your sense of balance
Poems plays with your mind
It's art because it's intentional.
The point is to make you think it's bullshit. That was the artist's intent.
AI has no intent. The person prompting it might... But usually it's not intent so much as "I tried until this was pretty"
Which is still art - just not noteworthy.
One could argue that the viewer also has a role in acknowledging something as art, which would mean that intention is not totally mandatory in the definition.
What would the argument be, exactly? I don't think I've ever heard someone refer to a sunset as a work of art, but only that it was like a piece of art. The only exception have been people who believe in God.
What about a still frame of a sunset, chosen from among the dozens of photos a stationary camera took over the course of a day?
What about an ai generated still of a sunset, chosen from among the dozens produced from a handful of prompts?
...what if that ai frame gets retouched? Where is the line?
A viewer has no role in determining if it's art. Art is solely determined by an artist intending to make art.
A viewer decides if they like it, decides if they appreciate it and decides what messages they take from it... But they don't decide if it's art. Art is what an artist makes.
by your logic I declare everything I create with stable diffusion to be art :)
Correct!
I find a 5 year old's doodles more interesting and higher quality than anything you're making with SD but it's still art.
Everything you create? When I win the jackpot on a slot machine I didn't create the money
By that logic, no art is ever art because no one "created" anything except maybe god, or something?
If I used a tool to make the pixels light up in a new way, how is that different from Pollock flicking a brush to get the drops the way he wanted? His method is just as stochastic and randomly generated as mine.
I think a viewer can decide something is art unintentionally by evaluating it as art. If you need an artist to intend, then I guess the viewer is that artist because they are the one who made it art.
People can decide non-artistic things are aesthetically pleasing and apply the label of art to them but without a creator you can't have art.
But if it's a good a human designed - that designer had artistic intentions.
So it is art then due to the prompt engineering.
So if the artist's intent was to create something that is art but not seen as noteworthy to people of your opinion it's art right? As that was their intention.
Yes. That's why I said it was art. That was the closing statement.
I mean, to a large extent, that's every sketch artist I've ever met, but...
Art is the conscious use of imagination to create something with the intention of it to be appreciated, experienced, and/or evoke an emotion in the observer. It requires one or two way communication between the creator and the person experiencing it.
AI generated images aren't art because there is no conscious creator who intends to create an experience for the viewer. If a future AI is conscious and self aware enough to have a will of its own, and will use it's own creativity to create something to be experienced or appreciated by the viewer, we would have AI art, but until then these aren't art.
Also, the banana taped to a wall or a fruit in a cage is art, though it doesn't mean it's good or not. Art that sucks is still art.
Is the prompt used not that then?
Seems the process of creating the correct prompt fits your definition.
So the ai is more like the sculpting tools or paint right?
I can go to an online artist and commission a piece of art, but it doesn't make me the creator, and similarly, if I prompt an AI to generate the image, it doesn't make me the creator of the image.
So do you not consider photographers as artists? They don't create the image itself either.
I do consider photographers as artist, because there is an intentional creative process and the creation of the image; there's a great deal of skill and artfulness to photography. When a photographer sees something they want to photograph, they decide the position, the blur, the composition, the focus... All of that is intentionally done to direct the attention of the viewer to the subject(s) the artists wants, perhaps in a specific order. It requires an artistic process to create art.
What I don't consider as art is when a security camera catches footage, this isn't art, it's an image that was created without a creative intent behind its creator, just like AI generated images have no artistic intent behind them.
Prompting an AI to generate an image doesn't make someone an artist just like if I were to hire an artist to draw something for me doesn't make me an artist. Of course, if I hired an artist to draw something, the result is still art as it was created with an artistic process and intent, whereas AI lacks that therefore there is no art.
In the future, should a fully sentient and conscious AI exist, I would be able to acknowledge them as artists if they follow the same artistic intent when creating an image.
Digital art is a thing. Just because something takes text input and not a mouse doesn't change the fact you are using a tool to create art.
You misunderstood me, of course digital art is art when created by an artist, but if I pay an artist to make something I want, it doesn't make me the creator.
If I prompt an AI, it doesn't make me the creator either.
We'll have to agree to disagree because I think prompt crafting is a skill itself.