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this post was submitted on 18 Apr 2024
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Asklemmy
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I think it's up to Ukraine to decide if they want to defend themselves or not and they have obviously selected defense.
Russia is the aggressor and is solely responsible for the deaths in this case.
Western backed regime in Ukraine is literally kidnapping people off the streets and forcing them into fighting. Even mainstream western media admits this https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/world/europe/ukraine-military-recruitment.html
Yes very unfortunate but Russia is no better.
That's pure nonsense given that this is not happening in Russia. Maybe stop guzzling propaganda and start engaging with reality.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/14/world/europe/russia-convicts-soldiers-ukraine.html
But the worst thing about Russia is obviously that they started the war and are killing Ukrainians in the tens of thousands and are destroying the country for generations to come.
You should stop blindly believing everything the Russians say and especially spreading their propaganda.
Comparing convicts to nabbing people off the street exposes your intellectual dishonesty. However, the fact is that Russia isn't even doing that anymore. They literally have people volunteering. You should follow your own advice and stop projecting. Everything I've been saying about this conflict for the past two years is becoming increasingly obviously true. Meanwhile, people who have been peddling western propaganda are looking like clowns at this point. The fact that you lack any capacity for self reflection is just amazing.
Maybe ask yourself how is it that Russia isn't collapsing like you were promised, that Russian economy is outperforming the west, that Russian army is becoming stronger than NATO. This all being openly discussed by the same western media that said all those things would happen. Yet, here you are bleating about Russian propaganda.
None of that really matters when Russia is the one that is invading a foreign country and killing its citizens. Funny how all of you keep ignoring that or you just recite the Russian government propaganda.
It matters a whole lot actually because this a proxy war between NATO and Russia. NATO is just as responsible for what's happening, and in fact we now know that it was the west that intervened to stop negotiations in Istanbul that could've stopped the war back in 2022. Bleating about Russian propaganda isn't going to change the facts of the situation.
What I recite is what mainstream western media openly says now, and if you claim that's Russian propaganda then you're exposing yourself as a troll.
Russia invaded Ukraine. NATO didn't.
30% population of pre-SMO Ukraine was Russian. And a dicriminated minority. Who invaded whom is a matter of how well versed you are with one side of propaganda and how ignorant of the other.
Please provide evidence to the contrary then.
It's extremely easy to find tons of images of russian troops invading Ukraine.
I have yet to find any images of Ukraine invading Russia.
Russian side of propaganda is not too difficult to find, even in the English world. Why don't you do a google search by yourself and list 10 results of what you found ?
Why would I go out of my way to prove your point? Why would I ever look for Russian propaganda?
Your argument is yours to prove not mine.
You haven't substantiated your own assertion about NATO not invading Russia. It is your point at stake. I simply pointed you to an undeniable fact that torpedos your assertion, and pointed you to relevant literature, which you are refusing to look into.
Your point stands logically punctured. Feel free to flee.
Lol. You can't just say without sources that NATO invaded Russia and then get mad when I deny it. That's like the people that claim that the earth is flat say that everyone else has to prove otherwise.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you have none.
Flat eathers actually give what they think is evidenxe fir their claims.
Looks like you haven't actually read much there either.
Lol, says the dude that gives no evidence.
Says the guy who needs no evidence for his beliefs.
Wow comeback 😲
This is an infantile understanding of the situation. NATO expansion was the cause of the invasion as even Stoltenberg has now admitted publicly.
Why did the countries choose to join NATO? Maybe it was because Russia is a threat. A fact that was later proved by the invasion of Ukraine which actually made more countries join NATO.
If we are making hypothesis, USA bullying smaller countries into joining its own gang is much more probable. After all, it is not disputed that USA has been bullying everyone into forcing sanctions against Russia and only big countries like India and Germany have been able take a stand against American bullying.
My country joined because of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine not because of the USA.
Whatever makes you feel better. I am done here. I'll leave some reading material for you though.
If you haven't read actual Russian propaganda so far, I'd highly recommend reading the entire Big Serge's Substack for a rather informed take from perspective of a Russian in USA.
Enjoy these long reads with good tea.
I suggest you grow up.
Ok. Mama.
Because US has a massive propaganda machine and literally overthrows governments that aren't compliant. Entire books have been written on this subject, and yet here you are spewing ignorant drivel smugly.
Russia invaded Ukraine. The USA didn't. They have also done terrible things but we are discussing the invasion of Ukraine now.
Just because the USA has overthrown governments doesn't give Russia any right to invade Ukraine many years later.
Ditto. A country which is so afraid of freedoms and rights can't be trusted. Any reasonable country allows journalists to live.
USA literally published a paper on how they want to goad Russia into a war in Ukraine with the goal of extending Russia https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html
USA ran a coup in Ukraine that overthrew a democratically elected government to put a far right regime in place that then committed atrocities against people of Donbas since 2014. I lovew how you ignore all that since it doesn't fit your infantile narrative.
I never said I trust the US regime or their media.
Russia intervened in 2014 by for example occupying Crimea.
Oh jeez you're right, I wonder what that was in response to.
Russia doesn't share your assumption that it is a foreign country. That assumption is rather limited to English propaganda, and Russia hasn't invested much resources in countering institutional propaganda in the English world - they don't need to fight a pointless war at that front.
I don't care what Russia thinks. Pretty much the entire world agrees that Ukraine is a foreign country and if it weren't I wonder why it let Ukraine have its own government and so on.
Surely the Ukranian people had much control on the decisions made by the puppet goverment after the 2014 coup 😂 surely the Ukranian people must've enjoyed the increase in military budget, that surely increased their living standards https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.ZS?end=2022&locations=UA&name_desc=true&start=1992&view=chart
They didn’t, and stop calling me Shirley.
What? A country increases its military spending after a part of the country gets annexed by Russia‽ Who could have guessed.
So the 15000 civilian deaths caused by Ukraine bombing its own provinces before Russia intervened, the constant efforts by Russia to resolve the issue diplomatically, the naked refusal of the West to even engage with Russia, the West openly backing a fascist coup in Ukraine, and then arming it with the explicit dictate of provoking Russia, the West pressuring Ukraine to not accept the generous settlement offered by Russia in May after the war started, all that doesn't count?
Ukraine decided. To vote a comedian to a serious office.
They were probably hoping for a comedy, but what they have got is a tragedy.
Russia is doing what it had promised to do in its earlier agreements with Ukraine. It can't be blamed if the electorate in another country doesn't take things seriously.
Please provide sources for the agreement that says "please invade me and kill lots of our citizens if we ever elect a former comedian as a president"
Maybe find a source for the quoted text first.
It was obviously a joke dude. You Russians have no humor.
But seriously provide a source for the alleged agreement you said existed.
Sigh... I am no Russian.
Just someome who reads both sides of propaganda.
Sure...
Russia falling on its face, as an aggressor in this invasion, to a country ran by a comedian really helps to put context to Russia's decline. They basically shot themselves in the foot and if there weren't lives being lost, it'd be fairly comedic.
The only comedy is that Russia is falling on its face since 26 months now.