547
nuanceposting
(lemmy.cafe)
Important clarification/FAQ
I am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!
I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)
Very good comments that express key points:
- Detailed summary of the situation if you're wondering what's going on
- The rhetorical value of the bear hypothetical and what this means for you
- One example of why the long-term rhetorical value of the hypothetical is poor, in the context of intersectionality
- What does disenfranchisement mean in this context?
- The importance of not asking women to tone down their expressions of fear and frustration
- "But why can't they just say it nicely?"
- The importance of participation in kindness toward young men, specifically outside the context of people speaking their experiences
Edit: This post has now been removed and restored twice. I want to encourage you all:
Be decent to one another
I think this post is a valuable thing given the current state of the Fediverse, please don't fuck it up for us by being toxic in the comments.
"Just remember, men: under no circumstances are women ever wrong. Every problem is caused by you and must be fixed by you."
Way to purposely misinterpret what I said.
How are women "wrong" about feeling uncomfortable around unknown men? How are women asking you to fix that problem? None of what you just said is actually happening. Stop creating a fantasy where you're perfect and it's everyone else who has a problem.
I feel uncomfortable around unknown women 🤷♂️
That's fine. No one is forcing you to be around unknown women. And those women aren't going to be offended that you don't want to be around them. Those woman aren't going to call you completely irrational for choosing not to be around them. Those women aren't going to demand that you empathize with them. You are free to feel however you want.
That’s pretty dismissive. No one is forcing women to be around unknown men then.
Then why is this post filled with men upset that unknown women don't want to be alone with them?
You tell me. People aren’t forced to be around unknown people. Ever. According to you.
I’m sure those unknown women would think I’m silly for just wanting to be in a room with people who aren’t going to sexually harass me.
Why would anyone do that? No one wants to be sexually harassed. That's the point women are trying to make. They don't want to be sexually harassed either, that's why they are choosing the bear.
I understand their point completely. But in my experience, I’ve been sexually harassed way more times by women than by gay men. They definitely feel they have a right to express their desire, because as a man… I’m obviously trying to fuck everything in sight. (Sarcasm)
Let's just make this clear.
IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!
Seriously, you don't have to take it personally. Women aren't saying they'd rather be alone with a bear than you, specifically. Just as all women aren't the same as the women that have harrassed you, you are not the same as the men that have harrassed them. You, specifically, are not the man they'd choose a bear over. You are not the subject of their feelings. Stop taking it personally, and you won't feel bad.
“Unknown men” includes me if they don’t know me.
I’m not upset they don’t want to be around me. The feeling is so mutual.
But let’s be real clear.: Women can be inappropriate too, and often are.
Everyone is trash. Especially the ones who dismiss things by saying “this isn’t about you” when it is about everyone who is impacted by it.
You are specifically choosing to put yourself in that group and then get offended by it. That's no one else's problem but your own. Yes, I'm dismissing what you say, because you keep trying to portray yourself as a victim when it has nothing to do with you. You're not a victim just because a woman who doesn't know you would choose not to be alone with you.
In no way have I ever said I was this. You’ve not been listening to anything I’ve said.
I’d like to not be in this conversation with you. Respect that. Goodbye.
Tell me again how you don't portray yourself as a victim.
The feeling is mutual. Have a nice day.
Not even gonna read this. Now you’re pushing yourself on me after I asked you to stop.
Stop.
I don't really understand the point you're trying to make, would you mind expanding on it?
What are you on about? Are you trying to equivalence rape with someone hurting your feelings? That's just bizarre.
In what way is any of this like victim blaming - do you feel like a woman you've never met saying she'd rather be around a bear than you is somehow making you a victim?
Nope. Glad we've cleared that up.
Yes. It's sexism. Sexism (like racism, antisemitism, etc) victimizes all the people who are subject to it.
You are, how is it sexism, exactly?
Not cryophilia user, but I can't help but notice women raping and abusing men in many ways is a very real issue, and the one that constantly gets overlooked due to framing abuse as a "man abusing a woman" situation.
Sure, this is the most common case, but we cannot ignore the fact that women can absolutely be dangerous abusers without hurting the actual male victims.
Maybe there are better predictors of dangerous behavior than gender after all.
Of course it's a real issue, but it's in no way relevant to what we're talking about.