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[-] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Long way of saying it is supporting and aiding genocide that it desperately wants the world to go back to ignoring like the last seven decades.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 12 points 5 months ago

How specifically are US interests served by a genocide of Palestinians? They aren't. The US doesn't care about Palestine at all, but it would be better off if Israel weren't doing the indefensible. The US just wants Israel as an ally to assist in projecting power in the Middle East.

I sympathize with the desire to end what Israel is doing, but the first step is understanding the national interests at play. It's not an excuse for anything, but it's necessary to understand the dynamics at play in order to try and change those dynamics.

[-] AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The thing is, there are tons of US bases in the Middle East other than the ones in Israel. Qatar (who has their own moral issues, but is not actively commiting genocide), for example, has some of the largest US bases in the area. So, the question should be asked: do we really need to keep a country doing a genocide as our ally to maintain power projection in the Middle East? I think the US could get by just fine.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 4 points 5 months ago

I think the US could get by just fine with no presence in the Middle East at all. But if we are going to be in the Middle East, Israel is a far more capable ally than Qatar. And what do we do if Qatar does something horrific tomorrow? Pack up and move to Saudi Arabia? Is there really anyplace in the world we can form serious alliances without unsavoury partners? Could we even ally with ourselves?

I think the US could be a lot more honest about what Israel is doing, and we could put a whole lot more pressure on them to stop doing it. We should be doing more of both, but our alliance is exactly what gives us the leverage to do that. That is, unless we want to get involved militarily. But if we are going to do that, there are plenty of other places in the world that are just as worthy.

[-] AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 1 points 5 months ago

Israel is doing something horrific (genocide) today, that's the difference. As stated, those countries do have their own issues. But none are currently participating in a genocide of this scale.

And yes, I would prefer if we did pull out of being allied to countries that do genocide. We can also do other things, like not supporting them by giving them the weapons they need, without fully falling out. There's a lot of options that we just aren't doing, many more options than just military action. Israel will continue at least as long as the US is supplying weapons.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 1 points 5 months ago

But the US can't/won't pick up and move it's military bases every time the winds shift and someone else is committing atrocities.

I personally agree that I wish we were more selective with whom we form alliances. It's not like Israel just started abusing Palestine last year anyways. That's just not how foreign policy works today. There are other models that could be used, but the US isn't likely to do so unilaterally. Right now, every country in the world makes foreign policy decisions based almost exclusively on their own interests and to maximize their power and influence.

Yes, I also agree the US can and should be doing more to pressure Netanyaho. Even in the current foreign policy landscape it's pretty obvious that this genocide does not serve US interests. Biden is unfortunately a relic of the 80s/90s and is honestly not the president we should have elected. He's miles better than Trump (who's policies helped ignite this "war"), but that's a low bar

[-] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 2 points 5 months ago

Is your assertion that the US and Israel will no longer be allies if the US doesn't support Netanyahu's actions. Isn't Israel's government made up of a lot more than a single man's actions and doesn't Israel have a lot more to lose by losing us as an ally than we do by losing them? I say we call their bluff and let this murder go to jail. The Israeli government will clean up the mess he made and still be our ally.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 1 points 5 months ago

The US and Israel are still allies even though the US hasn't supported Netanyaho's actions, so no. The fact that the US is still being an ally is the very evidence people are using to say the US supports Netanyaho.

Unfortunately, it's not just Netanyaho as a bad apple. Netanyaho is massively unpopular, but the genocide is not. Israel's actions in Gaza have broad support among citizens of Israel.

[-] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

US interests have been served because of genocide. US interests are military defense contracts, testing and aligning police standards, and commercial development of settlements in Israel. Plus having military installations in the region, as you said. All of this is predicated on the apartheid and genocide of the Palestinian people. The dynamics are understood.

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online -2 points 5 months ago

Very well said.

this post was submitted on 24 May 2024
62 points (91.9% liked)

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