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this post was submitted on 02 Jun 2024
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Thanks for letting us talk about one of the largest ongoing horrors as a treat.
Perhaps in time you would consider not enthusiastically supporting and partaking in it?
Well there are ethical meats out there, right? I have always eaten my grandma's homemade chickens.
I am not sure how you ethically kill someone who doesn't want to die.
On principle I don't object to scavenging, I find it repulsive but just like how if you ate your parents when they died nobody would be hurt per se collecting road kill or something is not unusually cruel. Just creepy and gross given the lack of necessity.
But chickens are bred, the excess are killed young, chickens themselves have been selected for some pretty nasty traits in favour of making them more useful to us. Their ancestors live much longer, lay 10x fewer eggs, and don't grow oversized straining their skeletons. It's like pugs and stuff, we've bred in pain. I doubt your grandmother would give them medical care and comfort aimed at optimising their lives and happiness and only eating them after natural passing.
It's like when people try to say "oh but such and such a slavery was better than this other slavery" or something. Like ok it's probably true idk Roman house slaves had better lives than medieval Russian serfs but it doesn't fundamentally change how unjust the social relation was and how unnecessary that injustice was.
Except in rare circumstances, mostly human ones, animals (including humans) don't want to die, and die anyways.
The best we can give them is a ~~fervent (typo)~~ decent life and a humane death. The meat industry is atrocious at this, and carbon dioxide is a terrible idea - particularly when nitrogen is readily available, humane, and cheap.
I'm not sure how you get "Breeding people to kill them in their prime and eat their bodies" from "death is inevitable".
Could you step through your chain of reasoning please?
Well said. People like you make me wish I could follow users on lemmy
You bookmark my profile, show up randomly to just say nice things to me like this so I feel less like I'm begging into a void (￣▽￣)ノ <3
For real though thanks for the kind words. Because controversy generates engagement saying anything against eating meat gets you inundated with replies, like 1 in 40 of which seem remotely good faith.
I've saved your comment, if I'm going through my saved stuff hopefully I'll remember to look at your stuff again and chime in 🤞😊 in the meantime, keep it up!
Wait I didn't even realize you couldn't follow users on lemmy, huh
Yep, the devs refuse to implement it. There's an issue on github for it and the recommended solution is "use kbin or mastodon or something else"
Nature will undoubtedly provide a grisly and cruel death. Animals don't have a concept of "long, well-lived life full of meaning." They do have a direct experience of "having food and shelter and being generally free of pain is enjoyable."
It doesn't matter if it's in their prime (before they decline and life becomes difficult) or of it's after their prime - except that if you wait too long, life starts to suck pretty bad.
If you want to end predation, you'll have an eternal task on your hands.
That is not a chain of reasoning, would you mind trying again. Step by step please.
edit: most charitable read (they blocked me?)
The most charitable read I can see is
1 - everyone dies 2 - I assume without evidence that death is generally unpleasant and painful 3 - I assume without evidence animals don't have complex internal worlds and desires for things like freedom or long life 4 - I assume the lives animals lead in farms is good 5 - I am a naive utiliarian and see no issues with mere addition/the repugnant conclusion 6 - a quick death does not count negatively in a utiliarian sensw C - therefore we should breed as many animals as we can, kill them whenever convenient as long as they are not old, and this makes the world better.
I do not see how 1 through 3 connect to 4 through 6. And 4 through 6 is just the repugnant conclusion.
It was three distinct points. But it wouldn't matter if I did reason it out for you - your stance is emotive, and you won't agree with me unless that viewpoint underlying your stance changes, and it won't change due to someone reasoning it out for you.
The slow grind of time, and the steady erosion by nature may cause you to change, though. Fortunately, whether it does or not, it's basically irrelevant to me whether or not you believe or act as I do.
Edit, in response to your edit:
You sure do assume a lot about me. But, so it goes. Again - I'm not really concerned with whether you think like I do or not. You can even hate me if you like. I don't expect you to come to my viewpoint by anything I say. My viewpoint is different than yours, and that suits me fine. Such is diversity.
The most charitable read I can see is
1 - everyone dies 2 - I assume without evidence that death is generally unpleasant and painful 3 - I assume without evidence animals don't have complex internal worlds and desires for things like freedom or long life 4 - I assume the lives animals lead in farms is good 5 - I am a naive utiliarian and see no issues with mere addition/the repugnant conclusion 6 - a quick death does not count negatively in a utiliarian sensw C - therefore we should breed as many animals as we can, kill them whenever convenient as long as they are not old, and this makes the world better.
I do not see how 1 through 3 connect to 4 through 6. And 4 through 6 is just the repugnant conclusion.