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this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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No profits for companies. Wartime economy.
Yeah. Government-owned companies producing shells that probably wouldn't pass QC in "the west", and paying employees a pittance in comparison. Also at least based on aerial photos, Russians seem to use contact fuzes a lot (you can see the difference from the "splash" patterns) which are a lot cheaper than airburst / multifunction fuzes, but admittedly those might well have been old Soviet stock and their new production could well be more modern.
Still, regardless of the fuze used it's no surprise that Russian production is cheaper.
Reportedly the Russian factory workers are being paid quite well. And the lack of quality is just a myth I think. There's no indication that's actually true.
The real reason prices in the West are so high is that there's a shortage, and shells are supplied overwhelmingly by private contractors, and so the price has multiplied thanks to supply-and-demand market logic.
You may think the Efficient Free Market Knows Best™, so shouldn't they increase production? Think again. They're making record profits right now. Meaningfully increasing production involves building new factories for billions of dollars/euros, which might be ready in a year or two. By then the war will be over and they would have overcapacity, which would be inefficient and prices would plummet. Why would they do that to themselves?
So they're in a great negotiating position vis a vis desperate Western governments. They want guaranteed profits, of the same sort they're making right now, or else the shortage continues.
Paid well for Russian factory workers
Then you haven't been paying attention.
Yes lmao, let's just ignore the overall abysmal precision, the anti-air defense that strikes it's own cities, the exploding shells upon firing, etc. No lack of quality here.
Yeah, there's a reason why they suddenly have a lot of trouble selling their military hardware even to countries that haven't sanctioned them.
Well, other reasons in addition to the fact that the stuff they're fielding themselves in Ukraine keeps getting blown the fuck up and they have had to replace it with something that was initially being built for an outside customer. "Yeah you remember those tanks you ordered? Weeelll you're not going to be getting them quite on schedule, there's been some… uh… complications. The turrets… they, uh… experienced rapid unplanned disassembly caused by… uh… assembly workers smoking in the crew compartment. Definitely not caused by inferior westoid antitank missiles in Ukraine, our cope cages work against those 100% of the time and it's not like we'd use your tanks in combat, no siree Bob"
I'd love to see a comparison to the best western 155 round, vs the best RU 155 round and whatever rice-filled horrorshells North Korea is sending russia lol
Russian military is building their own while West is buying from others. Obviously the Russian's gonna be better and cheaper then westerners.
What makes you think that? Do you think we are buying made in China artillery shells? Of course the West makes its own. The main difference is that we never expected to need very many of them, because in a typical war the West has air superiority and uses bombs/rockets instead of shells.
Russian military is building their own while western ones are buying it from corporations that want only profit and nothing else. So to keep this profit going up they don't expand their factory capacity creating an artificial scarcity of shells to keep their prices up. But it's not the case with Russian military.
https://kyivindependent.com/general-staff-russians-using-low-quality-defective-north-korean-shells/
https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/dissatisfied_with_quality_and_quantity_of_north_korean_artillery_shells_russians_complain-8818.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/28/n-korea-sent-russia-millions-of-munitions-in-exchange-for-food-says-seoul
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Ukraine-war/North-Korea-sent-more-than-3m-artillery-shells-to-Russia-says-Seoul
https://www.reuters.com/world/north-korea-has-sent-6700-containers-munitions-russia-south-korea-says-2024-02-27/
edit: lol, can't argue the premise or any of the points so, uh, downvoted lol!
it's all you got huh slick?
I heard they're fighting with shovels and washing machines!
considering the rate at which UA is destroying russian tube arty I can't imagine the fuzing will make much difference in the war.
what an absolute shit show.
It's not like literally all Russian artillery gets destroyed before firing off a single shot. Fuzing absolutely does make a difference
no, it's just that 20-40+ tubes are eliminated DAILY. which is absolutely bonkers. They're losing a division of artillery every couple weeks.
you do realize it takes meatsacks to run the guns right?
and while you may be able to refurb some of the damaged tubes, the meatsacks are gone and you're going to have to train new ones?
no, it's like, mathematically obvious, that literally all russian arty gets destroyed before firing off their second or third salvos, you know, the shots 'fire for effect' cover, the ones that matter?
If you knew squat about field artillery you'd fucking know the first few rounds always require adjustment.
You'd also understand shoot and scoot. Apparently all these concepts are new to you.
What a fucking bellend, wannabe redleg pogue
Special operation time economy*
Hungry North Koreans too
source: the people who can't produce shells as fast as the two most sanctioned countries on earth 😆
So did you not read the war time economy line above, or but understand it?
When you definitely understand what a war time economy is.
Ok so no.
Obviously a country focused on military production can...produce militarily.
Military production accounts for like 6% of Russian GDP. Lives for vast majority of people living in Russia haven't been affected by the war in any way. Maybe read up a bit of history of WW2 to see what focusing a country on military production actually looks like.
Perhaps, even, no grift for oligarchs, wartime economy.