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Just a reminder
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
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In a vacuum, what you're saying makes sense. But the Democratic party doesn't exist in a vacuum. You don't have to approve of all of their actions or policies to recognize that the ONLY OTHER OPTION in this moment is a much greater evil.
Exactly. It's almost like people don't understand how party politics work. It's always about holding your nose and voting for the least bad option. Very rarely is your ideal candidate even on a ballot. If everyone voted only for their ideal candidate, we'd have thousands on the ballot. Even in ranked choice you vote in order of preference but these clowns wouldn't even put a rank to someone like Biden. They'd rather Trump supporters win.
Say those who do.
Genocide is not excusable or justifiable. Ever. It's not something that can be just handwaved away as "regretable".
If the Dems want to win elections they need to A) stop supporting genocide and B) Stop trying to force the pied piper strategy. It's a political failure.
Explain to me how allowing the Republican candidate to win in November is going to help prevent genocide.
Once you're done with that... explain to me why you believe the Republican candidate would not support even greater atrocities.
I love the self outing of "pied piper", bro you're just admitting now that you're treating everyone who's actually gonna live the difference you let happen like a bunch of hysterical exaggerating crybabies because how dare people be mad at you for thinking this time surely the establishment will learn it's lesson!
Yeah, we're being crybabies because the Democratic nominee is supporting a genocide. If only we were all wise and worldly like you where we could shrugg it off, right? I mean, what's the big deal about genocide, right? Everyone's so stuck on this "human rights" thing, geez. Grow up everyone, you've gotta have a little genocide sometimes to protect democracy.
How are you going to help prevent genocide when you get genocided yourself for letting fascists win?
A better question; how does Biden represent any serious opposition to fascism when he's literally neck and neck with a convicted felon and can't even bring himself to give up on genocide in order to "save democracy"?
What is your floor for supporting genocide?
Providing wrapons that you say can't be used forbthe genocide even though we know they are being used for that?
Providing funding that could be used on weapons?
Providing intel intended to reduce civilian casualties?
Maintaining diplomatic relations with the country?
Just curious as 'supporting' can be stretched pretty far, and for me the floor would be providing weapons. Anything beyond that is just normal international relations bullshit.
Support for genocide is not stretchy, no. Aiding a government that's committing genocide is supporting genocide. Period.
Is not getting involved in stopping the genocide supporting genocide through inaction?
If both parties are fully genocidal then neither of them represent resistance to it and voting for either is approval.
Reform is the only option. GOP has no chance of reform, Democrats have an infinitesimally narrow window left through which to achieve reform before fascism is fully rooted. They will not reform if rewarded with power.
Those are your democratic options. Do what you think will be least ineffective, and then prepare for the overwhelming statistical liklihood that Democrats will fumble any opportunity you give them out of greed and deluded incompetence.
Well, the good news is that only describes one of the parties that includes people who have said out loud that they support genocide and/or are writing messages supportive of killing Palestinians on the bombs used for genocide.
No. Biden is fully committed to the genocide. His actions prove that beyond dispute.
Biden is the entire Democratic party?
Seems like a small party.
I’m not voting for Biden, or Trump. I am leaving pres blank.
Don’t care if you agree with me. I vote my conscious. You have to vote yours.
Of the two, which would you rather have?
Not voting for your preferred candidate (even if it's the lesser of two evils) is the same as voting for the other one. So I'm not sure how that eases your conscience.
Every voting age citizen is helping one of them win...either through voting directly or through inaction. If we allow a dictator to rise to power in America and commit God knows what atrocities, yes you can say "I didn't vote for him." But at that point, it doesn't matter. It's too late. You won't be able to say "I helped prevent this. And even though I disagree strongly with certain policies, at least we still have a democracy."
Doesn't matter what your grievance with the party is. There are exactly two options in Nov. One of them WILL be voted into power. There is no 3rd option. No outcome where one of them does not win.
Whether you believe it or not, our actions as voters will help one or the other of them succeed. If it makes you feel good about yourself to abstain, that's your choice. But it's delusional to think that that somehow absolves you of any responsibility for whatever outcome happens. Like it or not, you're going to help someone in this election...there is no way out of that.
Yes, and this isn't just about November or a single term.
That's why you keep spinning round and round in the same cycle of DNC abuse, they set themselves up so it's either them or the End of All Things and you swallow that dichotomy whole every time.
So I should just not vote is what you're saying.
I still fail to see any suggestion from you that is a better alternative.
I'm not telling you to do anything. You have three choices, 1) Fascist 2) Fascist-Lite 3) Send a message to Fascist-Lite to hope it finally sinks into their thick Neanderthal skulls and they can't keep ignoring their base.
That's it, you do whatever you feel is best.
Except that options 1 and 3 are the same. They come as a pair. So if you think you can stomach option 1, then by all means go for option 3.
Let a dictator seize power, tear down our democracy, and install himself and his successors for life. That'll teach them Democrats a lesson.
No one's saying reform doesn't need to happen. But it isn't gonna happen before November. And it certainly isn't going to EVER happen after November if the side that would refuse to give up power once they have it gets elected.
This would read a lot less out of touch if that "abuse cycle" wasn't the actual fucking truth
Believe it or not, there is never a fucking safe time to let the fascists win!
Aren't you supposed to be the ones who are the only ones who take the threat of fascism seriously?
Here's your chance, put the fuck up or get on the wall with the rest of the collaborators when the revolution you're creaming your jorts for actually does come and the actual victims of fascism take stock of everyone who could have helped prevent their trauma and actively fought and whined and bitched and moaned to not do that.