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this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2024
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They're coming over because the people around them are dying.
Do you really think they'd risk their lives like this for anything less?
There are plenty of first hand videos of people talking to people making dangerous crossing and they are doing to because they think they can get money in the new country.
Anecdotal, but feel free to find one if that's the case.
Then please explain why this is not relevant: https://www.dw.com/en/record-120-million-people-displaced-globally-in-2024-un-report/a-69348370
It's quite frequently on the TV.
I'm not saying people aren't displaced around the world. Europe for example has a lot of Ukrainian refugees that should be taken in, legally.
A lot of the illegal migration is for money. If they got sent straight back they would have no reason to make the journey and they wouldn't be at risk of drowning.
I have not seen the TV you have seen. If there are "plenty of first hand videos," you can provide one.
Yes, I know this is your claim. Feel free to provide actual evidence for it beyond telling me that anecdotal videos exist but only on TV shows I haven't seen at your leisure.
I've watched YouTubers who film and interview for example the u.s. southern border migrants the vast majority like 95% will say they cross for money and opportunity, occasionally they'll say because political persecution or communism or civil war or whatever. They never look malnourished or anything. The article you linked to says 120 million are displaced but links about 15 million to war. Which you claim they are migrating because people around them are dying which isn't too true. So this brings us to our next problem. Should they stay in their own country and fight their own damn problems? Should another country do it for sudan? Should the u.s. arm a stabilizing militia in sudan and aid them in the liberation with thousand pound freedom bombs? If migration is such a problem?
For one, that is totally anecdotal. YouTubers can interview whoever they want and edit and present those interviews however they want.
Secondly, displacement is always a life-or-death matter. Do you think being homeless in a rich country like America is easily survivable? Now imagine it in an African country.
There are various different channels and people who film and interview people illegally crossing. I've just never seen a malnourished group of illegal migrants on any news platform. It's just not common at all. Ive even just now tried finding it and I can't. The vast majority wear new clothes and new shoes. Which leads me to imagine it's not all that hard surviving where they come from. They just want more new shoes and clothes and more soda to gulp in their fat stomachs.
Again, anecdotal. YouTube videos and news channels show you what they want to show you.
Well you have not showed me a single crap. I only know what I know I can't know what I don't. And I've tried looking for what I don't and didn't find it, as I said.
Sounds like a very faith-based outlook on life.
Nah you spend enough time on the internet go look. I don't have every TV show I ever watched recorded and categorised. I doubt anything I show you will change your mind so why bother? Economic gain is clearly a documented reason. People burning their passport is clearly documented. All these young men coming over must be so much more desperate than everyone else right? Otherwise why would it be just them? If you are open to your pre conceived notions being wrong go look, if you are going to keep them anyway no point me wasting my time.
That's not how it works. It's not my job to prove you aren't lying.
Then you can show this clear documentation. Again, it's not my job to prove you aren't lying.
You're the one that said they are all coming over because everyone around them is dying.
Go prove everyone coming into Europe illegally is because it isn't safe for then to be anywhere else.
I did not use the word 'all' or the word 'everyone.' That would definitely be a lie.
Now, you have claimed that there is plenty of video and clear documentation. This is your last chance to provide them before your comments get deleted for violating the misinformation rule (rule 6).
Lack of evidence isn't misinformation. You being ignorant isn't misinformation. If someone has been reported by the news and I mention it. It isn't misinformation.
So if they are coming over because they are dying... You then imply through a sarcastic means that no one would come over for anything less than life or death.
So what is it? Are you saying people would come over for less or wouldn't? If they would come over for less maybe they would come over for what? Money?
It's kinda sad that when pressed in a reality you don't agree with you are going to abuse your power and silence me just because you don't want to be wrong.
You're really not worth this because I don't think anything will change and the comment will still probably get deleted. But at least it will amuse me.
https://www.cfr.org/article/europes-migration-dilemma
"Europe is also a magnet for migrants seeking better economic opportunities"
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2021/12/20/deliberate-destruction-of-identity-documents
If they refugees and not looking for money why they need to destroy passports?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66132875
"More than 80% of the group are unaccompanied minors, aged under 18. Many of the boys had started their journeys years earlier, when they left home hoping to make money to send back to their families."
There you go :) proved it's not misinformation.
I don't have the opportunity to go through video archives now so you can either take my first hand account I seen them and linked with the news articles giving the same information or I'll say now that I don't have video evidence at hand, just the articles
I would appreciate you honouring me with taking the time to show how people are coming only to avoid death and nothing less? As you made out.
Edit: here is another
https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/10/canary-islands-sees-surge-of-migrant-arrivals-via-west-african-route
"They probably heard that they then have a guarantee of achieving their goal: to get a residence permit, a work permit, training or, above all, work."
Thank you for actually providing something approaching evidence for your claims. Of course, your claims discount the fact that those families themselves will die if that money isn't earned, so it's still a life-or-death situation, but at least you backed up your claim rather than just stated it as if it were true.
I have no idea why you think destroying a passport has any relevance to anything though. You've brought it up more than once as if it has to do with economic migration.
Sorry could you provide evidence that people are coming over for life or death situations please? Do you not hold yourself to the same standard as others? Your comments look like misinformation from my side.
Economic migrants aren't refugees. If you burn your passport you can claim to be a refugee. There was reports of people flying from Pakistan to north Africa destroying their passports and travelling to Europe illegally for monetary reasons, not because of life and death.
And no I'm not going to go find that for you because I have already proven my word and I'm waiting for you to do the same. If this comment and this comment alone needs proving or it will get labeled as misinformation then I'm not going to waste my time on it. If you don't trust and and don't want to check me, delete it.
I literally gave you evidence in my first response with the DW article, which you apparently didn't read.
No you didn't.
I did read it. That is talking about refugees looking at asylum. You understand the difference right?
Asylum seekers are covered under international law. That is about legal movements.
We aren't talking about that we are talking about people illegally crossing borders. It seems like you are trying to make out one thing is something it isn't. It seems to me you are trying to make out illegal migrants are refugees. That seems a lot like misinformation to me and you need to provide sources for your claims.
That's why I'm asking for a source. Are you saying all illegal migrants are refugees even though I have showed evidence of them just doing it for money?
You're misleading people.
You do know that we have no idea whether or not someone is seeking asylum when they're dead, right?
No, I'm saying you have no idea what reason they're coming over for in general, you're basing your claim on TV and YouTube videos. And I'm saying they wouldn't risk their lives if they weren't desperate.
The funny thing is, you don't realize that if someone is doing something for money which might kill them, they really need that money. It's a life or death situation, if not for them then for their families.
Now, are you ever going to explain the significance of burning a passport?
So all the claims you make are unfounded and not backed up by any evidence or source and go contrary to what I said.
Your only explanation is a feeling you have.
Face it if I did that you would have deleted all my comments. I based my comments and sources on reporters from some of the most well regarded news sites. One rule for you, one rule for everyone else. I did everything you asked of me and you done nothing, you're moving the goalposts for yourself and you won't do anything to back up your claims. You just want to argue but won't admit I provided everything to back up my claims are yours are unfounded.
Fuck man I did. If you have a country that does not have refugees you can burn your passport and lie and say you are from a different a country to gain refugee status. Legally you refugee but actually they are just economic migrants abusing the system and breaking the law.
This conversation is over until you provide something that's more than just your feels.
Sorry, I am not going to continue this discussion if you insinuate that is the kind of moderator I am.
I also highly encourage you to report me to lemmy.world admins if you think I would delete all of your comments for any reason that didn't violate community rules, because that would be beyond the pale of any moderator.
After all, I'm sure you have some basis for making such an accusation, right?
Answer my repeated questions for sources (like you asked of me) or this discussion is over.
"After all, I’m sure you have some basis for making such an accusation, right?"
I guess the answer to this question is that no, you just made it up, presumably for sympathy.
Answer my repeated questions for sources (like you asked of me) or this discussion is over.
You are free to end this discussion whenever you like, but your attempt to goad me into doing something like deleting all of your comments is not going to work.
Again, if you feel that I am doing such things as a moderator, by all means contact the lemmy.world admin about it because it would be absolutely unacceptable for a moderator to behave that way.
I will be very surprised if you actually put your money where your mouth is and don't reply again.
Haha all I want is sources. I know you're entire life is this website so I know you will go on forever. I don't expect anything else.
Or for you to show some honour and growth and actually admit you are wrong, have no claims and I think I'm owed an apology for how you have treated me.
Sources or go bother someone else.
And all I want is evidence that as a moderator that I would delete all of your comments for disagreeing with you.
See... the problem here is you claim you just want sources but then you tell a lie like that. So what's the point in providing you with any sources when I already know you lie about me?
If I did provide you with a source, you'd lie and say I didn't.
Bored now.
You were close to deleting my comments, you gave me a last warning, yet you did not provide any sources yourself. That's not a source as mentioned because it isn't about illegal crossing, it's intentionally misleading. So provide a source. You know if this was the other way around and you provided the sources I did and I just gave you a misleading source my comments would be deleted.
You know things I say to be right you're just hoping I conceded my position. You thrown your weight around and keep talking about your powerful position as a mod to intimidate me.
All I asked was for sources and the conversation has degraded to this.
This will be my last comment because why would I talk to you? You care more about winning and being a mod than you do about discussing or learning. I hope you learn to improve yourself. Good day.
I gave you a warning that I would delete your comments for misinformation. You supported them so I did not delete them. I said as much at the time, so I'm not why you're engaging in this fantasy.
We will see if your 'this will be my last comment' claim will be true.