256
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2024
256 points (90.5% liked)
No Stupid Questions
35868 readers
423 users here now
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Nothing that I have said is false. In fact I can source every single one of my claims. I know a propaganda fueled drone such as yourself can't do the same, which is why you came back with this drivel instead of providing substance
You claimed:
"I literally don't care".
Sure doesn't seem to jive with your histrionics.
Also, the history of Israel and Palestine is incredibly well documented. Going back 75 years.
You could literally search on any engine and find it instantly. You don't even need a particular source to figure out how old this conflict is.
Which is probably where you should start.
If you actually took into account the context, it's very obvious that I said I don't care about your claim that conflict is old and goes back many years. Nobody is disputing that. My point is that you made specific claim, which is that Israel wants to annex the Palestinian territories entirely as their ultimate goal, however, that is blatantly false because Israel literally gave up their settlements in Gaza voluntarily in 2005 and unilaterally existed. If their ultimate goal is complete conquest, why would they have done such a move? This event contradicts your thesis and disproves your claim.
Paraphrased: "After decades of colonization, why would Israel publicly state that they were ending all illegal ongoing colonization?"
Because Israel already took most of the land(see picture) and didn't have to give any back.
Because there was a lot of complaints about them colonizing Palestine, especially as the internet became more popular and people became more aware of the illegal Israeli colonization of Palestinian land.
By publicly stating that Israel would no longer annex Palestinian land, they didn't have to give up any of the land they already colonized over the past half century, civilians could continue to colonize Palestinian land because it wasn't official government or military colonization, and people would be mollified.
And it worked.
You apparently aren't aware that Israelis are still colonizing Palestine because 19 years ago they put out a press release that said "no backsies, but some of us will stop officially colonizing this country after 60 years".
The civilians are still settling Palestinian land(they never stopped) that has been now evacuated because, you know, they're killing all the Palestinians.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/3/8/israeli-settlement-expansion-in-palestinian-areas-amounts-to-war-crime-un
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/longform/2024/3/19/how-israeli-settlers-are-expanding-illegal-outposts-amid-gaza-war
What fluff? I wrote 5 sentences lmao
Yeah, this isn't going to fly by me. This is just the strawman fallacy. That is NOT what I asked. I asked a very simple and straight forward question:
This is clearly in reference to their unilateral exit in 2005 from Gaza. If you want to have a discussion with me then at least have the decency to be honest. I won't respond to an answer about a question I didn't ask, but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt to answer the actual question I asked. If you can't help but be disingenuous then I'm afraid this discussion will end with my comment here.
Al Jazeera is literally a state sponsored propaganda outlet that is owned by the authoritarian theocracy of Qatar. This outlet is a bad source in general, but it's notorious for it's misinformation and outright when it comes to this specific conflict. If this is where you get your information then I'm not surprised why your talking points are nothing than inaccurate propaganda.
This image is a prime example of what propaganda looks like. I know you don't have any, but let's use our critical thinking skills for a bit and analyze why this picture is complete trash:
Now what did we learn from all of this little exercise? A little of critical thinking can go a long way in recognizing and dispelling propaganda. Try it some time!
Wow, what a miss you took.
I hope that didn't take you a long time.
Then again, it's much funnier if you did.
Your argument against the Israeli colonization of Palestine is that the Palestinian settlements are even smaller than they appear to be on the map.
Yes, that is the a problem. That is the point of the maps, to show how little land Palestinians have left.
Your argument is that people only own the land of the country they're standing directly upon. Amazing.
You should go argue that to literally any country in the world where that is not correct.
Go look up the term "national boundaries"
However,
Your incorrect understanding of borders is exactly what the Israeli government is arguing as the reason it's okay for them to continue to illegally colonize Palestine and execute the civilians there.
It's also not true, but you don't seem very concerned with the truth.
As for pretending to read the article incorrectly so that you can argue against it, that's just you arguing against yourself.
Not super relevant.
Your arguments:
Irrelevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annexed from Palestine.
You complain that colors are propaganda! Doubtful, since so many of these maps use different colors, and it is not relevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annexed from Palestine for the past 70 years
Nope, the first map details the settlement area of the Palestinian people. Again, you can look at border maps for many countries, but steal yourself! You'll be shocked that people are not standing on every square inch of their country. Your argument here also is not relevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annexed from Palestine for the past 70 years.
Colors(you already did this) are not relevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annex from Palestine for the past 70 years.
"It's not stealing land because fewer countries recognized Palestine as a country then."
I mean...Taiwan...
Actually I'll explain this because it doesn't seem like you understand much about national politics. Or geography. Or colonization.
145 countries recognize Palestine as a country.
A dozen (12, for you) countries recognize Taiwan as a country
If Taiwan gets annexed by China, it's still going to be a country being annexed(land being stolen) by China, even if not everybody is willing to recognize Taiwan as a country yet.
Also, pretty irrelevant to the amount of land that Israel has illegally annexed from Palestine for the past 70 years.
Greeeeat.
All you're doing here is arguing that Russia annexing Crimea and trying to annex Ukraine is cool because... Russia wants land that belongs to others.
Not a great argument.
Kind of missing the point of how Violet is to steal land from people after you kill the civilians on it.
And 8. Your most bizarre criticism. There's no source for this map?
Like, how do you get such s basic thing incorrect? Do you even know how search engines work?
Here's a bunch of sources for that map, even with different colors for your weird color fetish.
You'll have to come up with all new reasons why these different colors scare you.
https://visualizingpalestine.org/visual/http-visualizingpalestine-org-visuals-shrinking-palestine-static/
https://www.palestineportal.org/learn-teach/israelpalestine-the-basics/maps/maps-loss-of-land/
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Figure-1-Showing-the-Loss-of-the-Palestinian-Land-and-the-Segregation-of-Palestinians_fig1_378482435
Here's one on your side, they used different colors and swear that the map is wrong;
https://aijac.org.au/fresh-air/disappearing-palestine-the-maps-that-lie/
Unfortunately, their "correct" maps begin and end in the exact same place and still highlight disappearing Palestinian territory, and they don't even include the illegal settlements by Israeli civilians.
My answer completely and credibly answers your question:
Israel made that disingenuous 2005 statement because they knew they didn't have to give any land back to Palestine, because they knew that Israeli civilian settlers would continue to annex Palestine, and because it would make people like you believe that they stopped colonizing Palestine, contrary to all of the evidence of continued Israeli settlement of Palestinian land in the ensuing years.
Including right now.
Where they are colonizing Palestine and putting up residential neighborhoods.
That's in the sources from my previous comment that you seem a bit wary to mention.
Here's the BBC reporting on the continued illegal Israeli settlement of Palestine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68490034
Here's the times of Israel, proudly declaring their intent to illegally settle Palestinian land, sanctioned by the defense ministry.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-panel-greenlights-nearly-3500-new-west-bank-homes/
Here's PBS, describing Israel planning to illegally annex and colonize Palestine:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-plans-to-build-3300-new-settlement-homes-in-occupied-west-bank-in-response-to-a-fatal-shooting
Here's Reuters describing The ongoing illegal annexation and settlement of Palestine by Israel:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-advances-peak-number-west-bank-settlement-plans-2023-watchdog-2023-07-13/
Go ahead, please try to explain how all of these sources, including Israel and their ministry of defense stating that they are going to annex Palestine, are just kidding about the illegal annexation of Palestine.
Your argument that the colors are wrong has nothing to do with the number of times Israel has invaded, razed, annexed and colonized Palestine, nor with the amount of civilians it's executed or with schools, hospitals it's bombed.
That was a pretty fun victory lap for me.
Keep swinging though, I like dancing on laurels
You're so disingenuous and brain dead that it's literally not worth my time to engage you.
I understand you're afraid of revealing your ignorance.
That ship has sailed.
I'm very directly telling you to ask for help.
Nothing disingenuous.