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this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2024
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I will enjoy hearing about how the rich will just move away from their fancy mansions on the Riviera and their suites in Paris to avoid paying this tax and then seeing it not happen.
Some of them, sure, but I wonder how many would consider it worth the price. This is an income taxe I'm assuming, so it's not like they'd lose out on actual wealth, investments, etc.
It might be worth it if even just half stay and pay the taxe.
That was my point- they won't leave. They like living there too much. That's just always the excuse when such taxes are proposed for not doing them. "The rich will all just leave."
If it's successful presumably other places will start to follow suit. Somebody's gotta go first tho.
It wasn't done nationally, but the U.S. state of Massachusetts did it recently and it was quite successful.
Once again, the rich people with their Boston penthouses and Cape Cod beach homes didn't want to leave.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/massachusetts-millionaires-tax-free-lunch-every-kid/
They raised $1 billion off of the relatively small number of rich people living in that state when the U.S. as a whole is taken into account.
There's just no question to me that such taxes work. And the more places you implement them, the harder it will be to escape them.
I never understood this argument. As a middle class person, I would highly prefer if all rich people left.
They are the ones hording the wealth.
Wealth is generated by applying labour to natural resources, that process doesn’t really include rich people, they just gate the resources.
While I agree, they most certainly will still try their damnedest to avoid it. From illegal stuff like tax fraud, to trying stuff like officially "moving" their workplace to a tax haven, while still living in France. There would definitely be more class warfare to be had, even after this were to pass (which they of course will fight tooth and nail against)
No doubt. The rich can afford to pay people to find every loophole and take advantage of everything they can take advantage of. But I'm still glad this is happening.
And it doesn't have to work perfectly to be worth it. Even if through rich-person fuckery they manage to stuff their (overseas) mattresses with hidden income, I'd bet the net result would be more €€€ in the public coffres.
Even if rich leave, so what? They dont have to pay taxes for shit and what little they do have to pay they will just avoid anyway.
Real estate prices go down a little? It's hard to see a downside.
Ah I misunderstood. I see we're in total agreement.
Still glad I made my comment, if only as a foil against general doomerism.
I think I’ve had this conversation with you before. Anyone who uses the “they’ll just leave” argument as a reason not to do it simply isn’t arguing in good faith.
This is a good start, for sure, but it should not be the end at all. The wealthier people get, the more effort they put into hiding/keeping that wealth.
Income/wealth/property/capital gains taxation is a balancing act. You want everyone paying their share; and everyone simultaneously agrees with that notion, while wanting to pay the absolute least for themselves. I would also argue that people need to see the benefits of that taxation in the form of maintained infrastructure and properly funded services. If it all just goes into the pockets of, e.g., the US military industrial complex, people will be less inclined to pay taxes at all.
Entirely possible. I've certainly discussed this topic multiple times. And yes, agreed, we need to do a lot more to curb excessive wealth.
Why would they move? This is an income tax, not a wealth tax and the wealthy typically have relatively little "income". Sure they may have a net worth of tens, hundreds, or even thousands of millions but their "incomes" (as defined by tax codes) can be surprisingly low.
Look at the CEOs like Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos whose salary was a single US dollar. They were incredibly wealthy but had nearly no normal income.
So unless you jigger the tax code to capture the work arounds the wealthy use this income tax will hardly touch them. It will only catch high wage earners, like a software dev working FAANG or something.
I guess that's an argument for also having a wealth tax.
Because most of them still won't move. Paris will not become a less desirable city to live in.
I think it would be easier if they rewrote the tax code so that everything (loans, stock sales, etc) counted as regular income and was subject to taxes.
Was it ever desirable?
The city of light? The city of love? Famed for its art and culture and cuisine? Full of beautiful architecture?
No, no one ever wants to go there.
Have you ever been there or just seen the photos?
I get that you don't like Paris, but there's a reason why a lot of rich people live there and it isn't because it's a terrible place.
Problem is that the Uber wealthy have all sorts of extra tax vehicles that even the 400k/year income folks don’t have. With various holding companies owning the various assets you use (e.g your car, house, etc.) your on-paper income can be quite a bit lower. Throw in various deductions and that’s how you get super wealthy people paying less taxes than “regular” people. Progressive tax rates already exist, and while this increases the percentage at these incomes, unless it addresses all the other loopholes, this will conveniently miss the 1% and instead impact high earning professionals.
Besides, the mere fact of implementing those tax rates makes high end luxury homes less valuable, because rich people from abroad will have less incentives to want to move there. So, if rich French people want to move from a very expensive home in France to a very expensive home in Germany, the new one will have to be less luxurious, because they won't be able to sell the old one for that much.
This does actually happen more than you think - it’s why all the world’s football and tennis stars miraculously decide to move to Monte Carlo as soon as they hit the riches. Which is exactly why we need a coordinated tax policy at an EU, EEA or global level, to make sure that you can’t just choose a neighbouring country and pay an order of magnitude less.