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[-] lennybird@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

(which isn’t wrong but he’s still the best viable option)

Whoa, hey now I very much object to the certainty of this claim.

Yeah, David Axelrod, senior Obama strategist credited with Obama's successful elections, Obama speech-writers and communications director, and now numerous long-serving Congressional democrats disagree but, totally the best viable option despite poll after poll showing he's massively down and Biden's own current campaign strategists reporting they see no viable path.

If your ship hit the iceberg and is taking on water, any other nearby vessel is a better alternative. At worst, it's in the same condition. At best, it's not fucking sinking. 75% of likely voters say Biden is too old to run and Democrats have a better chance with someone else at defeating Trump.

Disclaimer: we need to jump ship now but I'll vote for a corpse over Donald Trump. I just think we'll lose if we stick with Biden and the data shows it.

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 29 points 3 months ago

Then the Democrats can pick someone else NOW and rally behind them. This constant undermining of Biden while not providing a good alternative and promoting them is just hurting Democrats chances to save democracy. This is irresponsible on such an obvious level I have to assume they are trying to lose the presidency.

[-] lennybird@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It's all about pressuring Biden in time before his nomination is locked in by the delegates. The moment that happens, this ends for better or worse.

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 10 points 3 months ago

If you're going to pressure an incumbent into dropping out you can't lead with "we'll figure out who the nominee is who can beat Trump eventually". You come to the board with a game plan and evidence. Calling for him to step down is fucking sabotage without all of that.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

There's a Catch-22 here. Anyone who announces they're willing becomes persona non grata and nonviable, for stabbing the current candidate in the back before he's stepped down. But why would he step down if he can only be pressured if viable candidates have announced against him?

Which is why Harris, unfortunately, is most likely to nab the nomination. She's in just the right position to imply that she's ready to step up without saying anything that would lead to her being seen as 'not a team player' and troublesome for the party.

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 6 points 3 months ago

Anyone who announces they’re willing becomes persona non grata and nonviable, for stabbing the current candidate in the back before he’s stepped down.

None of this should have been done in public. Democrats calling for Biden to step down 1 day after the debate are idiots. This is internal party politics and while it would have leaked, it wouldn't have been democrats blasting their own party leader in public. They should have figured out who was the most popular, got a backup, got their support, and then went to Biden's campaign with their evidence. Then if he refused to step down, they maybe could do so in public. Or just wait for the pundits to trash Biden on their own instead of adding to it.

Division this late is the game is damning. Also Democrats are fair-weather supporters to a T. 1 bad debate and they throw the sitting POTUS under the bus? Yeah he looked old and made mistakes. But he isn't a fucking fascist. It's just unbelievable when Trump has been shitting the bed 24/7 for years.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

The problem is there have been rumors of this kind of backdoor objection going on for a while now. I dismissed them as gossip at the time, but now that Congress members have gone public, I'm more inclined to believe them. These members going public, including a Senator, sounds much more like desperation after exhausting the quiet options.

It’s just unbelievable when Trump has been shitting the bed 24/7 for years.

It is deeply unfair that the Democratic presidential candidate must show exceptional performance, while the fascist presidential candidate can skate by shitting his pants and demanding his followers shit themselves in solidarity, but we're appealing to two different demographics.

[-] lennybird@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I think you're looking at this all wrong. All data points to an inevitable Biden loss. Once you accept that, then the question of the alternative almost doesn't matter.

The problem is that you cannot in good conscience say that an 81-year-old with THAT debate performance is truly the best Democrats have to muster. If true, then that's fucking sad.

Now, I've written many write-ups, and now data supports it, showing that any alternative including Harris would fair better. Win? Not necessarily. But have a better chance? Absofuckinglutely.

  • A Harris path is better.
  • An open convention is to me even better with solid reasons for why, if you're interested.
[-] crusa187@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago

Biden has to willingly step down, the Dem leadership made it clear they won’t attempt to force him. Progressives can’t try to force it either or they will be excised from the party and simultaneously blamed for the inevitable loss.

Biden hasn’t held a full cabinet meeting since last year, so 25th amendment probably not happening either.

And so, ramping up the pressure on Biden to do the right thing by stepping down is the only viable option at this time. It sucks, but this is the bed Biden and the DNC made to lie in.

[-] brianary@startrek.website 11 points 3 months ago

I'm not sure I'd put much stock in modern polling.

A study suggests the debate had very little impact, but even if it didn't, historically, changing candidates this late hasn't worked out.

https://boingboing.net/2024/07/10/impacts-of-the-presidential-debate-far-overestimated.html

[-] lennybird@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Discussion aside, wtaf is boingboing.net? I'm even hesitant to click that link.

  • Reliable pollsters are accurate albeit snapshots in time.

  • Aggregate reliable polls even more so.

  • Nate Silver's algorithm is over 90% accurate in its prediction model across thousands of races over the years.

  • Cook Political Report is the gold standard.

  • Even internal polls reported by democratic Congressional campaigns as well as the President's team themselves admit they're behind.

  • They were 10 points up at this time in 2020.

  • If you aren't going off this, what ARE you going off of, vibes? In one breath you say don't put stock in polls, then point to an outlier? I mean, what!?

So you can't comfort me saying that when Biden should've come out 1 step ahead from that debate, he is not maybe only 1 step back as he has been for ages, but possibly 2 steps back.

[-] brianary@startrek.website 4 points 3 months ago

How do you not know boingboing.net?

Anyway, that's not the source, but Rawstory doesn't allow ad-blockers, so I linked that synopsis.

https://www.rawstory.com/rs-exclusive/biden-debate-2668724330/

None of those, including my link, is accurate enough to really matter, especially this far from the election.

[-] lennybird@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Thanks. Yeah I genuinely never heard of that site in my life. Seems like it's been around since forever, too.

[-] brianary@startrek.website 4 points 3 months ago

To be fair, it used to be a much better, more relevant site, which I only remember because I've been around since forever too.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago

Unfortunately, historically, a split like this is unprecedented. By coming out against Biden publicly, Democratic congressmembers have forced the issue, and it's not going to result in Biden remaining our best chance, even IF he would have remained our best chance had they remained publicly silent.

[-] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 3 points 3 months ago

Axelrod’s jobs sound like he pretty much retired from active politics

this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
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