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Those of you who don't vote, why?
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2024
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Ah yes the classic, “i cant decide between voting for fascism or against it. Really tough choice”
OP wants to know why people don’t vote. If you believe in voting you’re probably not going to like any of the answers but they shouldn’t be downvoted for answering the question as asked.
Hey. I'm trying to turn over a new leaf on social media. In situations like this, I will be absolutely serious, direct, and respectful. Regardless of if you disagree with my view, I politely ask the same thing. We need to talk to each other with respect regardless of our views. Agreed?
Ok I will rephrase to be polite and respectful.
When you are presented with the option of voting for or against fascism, what makes that choice difficult?
I'll continue to say this question still isn't being asked in good faith.
Of course the ballot isn't literally, "do u want fascism or nah"
It's between two politicians. You and I are agree that one side is almost inherently better than the other, but you have to remember that a. the other side also believes that they are inherently better than the other, and b. not everyone believes that either side is inherently better than the other.
Judging by your comments I'm assuming you're pro-choice; if someone asked you, "when presented with the choice of outlawing the murder babies, what makes that choice difficult for you?", you'd rightfully say they aren't posing the question in a fair way to you. It's the same thing here, if you're trying to communicate with someone who doesn't outright agree with you you can't just outright attack their position or frame it in a negative light or you just make them defensive and not receptive to an alternative view.
This specific election is literally just this
If you're speaking hyperbolically, sure. But when you're trying to have a genuine conversation with someone regarding a serious topic, using hyperbolic speech to belittle someone's position is pretty lame
They are not. If trump wins many people will die. And he will be the new forever king of America.
Ok, but LITERALLY, the ballot says Donald Trump or Joe Biden. HYPERBOLICALLY it says fascism or not. Words don't just mean whatever we want them to mean, and if someone isn't already on board with Trump = fascism (which, don't get me wrong, I'm 100% on that boat), phrasing things in pointed, biased ways isn't going to convince them that we're the side of reason.
There is literally no way to reason these people out of the position they didn't reason themselves into. I'm of the firm belief that we need to be heckling, calling out, and generally being as rude and mean as possible to Nazis. Make the fuckers squirm back into their hole.
Regarding this, I recently saw the counterpoint of Santa. Most people never reason themselves into believing in Santa, but they do reason themselves out of it. Obviously there’s cognitive development that happens in between in the Santa case, but a lot of people form their core political beliefs pretty young, so that may be true of politics as well.
Read the parent comment that we are under; do they sound like a Nazi to you? I'm not talking about the people that have already made up their mind that they want a Trump presidency, I'm talking about the uninformed, the unaware, the people starting to doubt their resolve, the people unsure their voice matters.
I’ve voted in every election since Bush senior in 1988 and I do not believe the other guy is speaking hyperbolically at all. It’s so different this time. It truly is.
I feel like everyone that is arguing with what I've said thinks that I don't agree that a Trump presidency will result in a huge increase in fascist ideology. It will be absolutely terrible if the man gets elected again and it absolutely will have drastic consequences to the US government.
This does not change the fact that LITERALLY, the ballot is between Biden and Trump, not between Fascism and Not-Fascism.
If someone is on the fence about something and you talk to them like there's only one logical option (even if there is only one logical option), the immediate reaction will almost be a defensive one, and rarely will they be persuaded to your way of thinking. Like the abortion example I gave above; if you were on the fence about abortion, and someone asked you if you thought murder was wrong, that would be a fair sign that they aren't presenting a good-faith discussion, and just want to brow-beat you in to their opinion. If you ask someone who (somehow) hasn't paid attention to politics in the last decade if they want to let [presidential candidate] turn the country into [bad thing], you're not opening a fair discussion, even if it's most likely true that the outcome you describe is the one we will see.
You are as pathetic as your weak defense of abandoning your most important civic duty. Your weakness hurts us all. Shame on you.
I... What? I think you've got me mistaken for someone else bud, I've voted in every election I could since I was 18, what civic duty have I abandoned? And where did I defend anything?
It's not a difficult choice at all because, you said it yourself; voting for or against when I already stated that I would vote for no one because we as a nation have put people in power that have the authority to supercede our vote. It's not a left or a right thing. It's not a democracy or fascism thing. It's a fact that every single American has to contend with because WE as American citizens allowed it to happen. Isn't that democracy?
Ok so you are deciding to not use your right, and thus will have no right to comment on the results of the election.
“I dont care either way”
Yes I do
“I dont like these questions so ill insult the person asking”
I am just trying to understand your logic of “I am unhappy with the government so i have decided to do nothing”.
My quotes are reflecting back your statement to show how it comes across. If you want to read it was sarcasm then thats your prerogative.
Your replies read as you feeling “holier than thou i don’t do politics at all” but instead coming across “I dont like the current elected representatives so I wont use the only thing I have to influence who has gets elected”
You can choose not to be involved in politics. But that choice means you have no right to complain about the result.
No. I'm not playing the "you started it" game. Yes I do have the right to complain, and don't put words in my mouth
Make no attempt to make your voice heard. use your right to vote in an election. You could even spoil your ballot
Complain about the result. which you did nothing about.
Right. I know that type of person.
Then I guess we nothing more to talk about
Then, have a wonderful day!
Is the one trying to overthrow democracy the fascist or the one funding the ethnic cleansing?
The one that wants to overthrow democracy and would like to fund the ethnic cleansing at an even higher rate/amount is the fascist. The one that has encouraged Israel to go faster / do more in Gaza is the fascist. I do not like Biden's weakness confronting Israel, but one is a cheerleader, and one is weakly pushing for caution.
Giving Israel the means to continue ethnic cleansing is more than cheerleading. Not that it would be acceptable if he were just cheering it on.
There's no evidence that Trump can do anything that Biden already isn't already, barring sending American soldiers to participate in the genocide which I doubt would be politically feasible for him. Israel doesn't need our soldiers, they do need our bombs though, which Biden has provided without any effective conditioning.
Not just funding but delivering planes, bombs, and weapons.
Kinda telling of how poor of a choice the Democratic candidates have been that they can't or can barely sway enough votes in their favor when this is on the line.