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this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
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I know the DNC isn't exactly a pro-union party, but the GOP is an outright anti-union party. I am curious why the Teamsters went with this move, perhaps they want increased protectionism to fight outsourcing of jobs? But the Teamsters are largely truckers, ie you cannot outsource these jobs.
Very odd choice.
It's a bizarre thing, but union workers are often conservatives who completely ignore the anti-union sentiments of the GOP. They think the only union in the world that should exist is their own, and no others.
This is how the GOP is able to convince unions to vote against their own interests. The GOP will tell a union to its face how important it is, earning their votes. Then, once elected, pass legislation harming that same union.
The GOP has also successfully gaslit their base into believing the two best things for unions are controlling immigration and "tax cuts".
One of those is actually true though
Which one?
Strict immigration controls. Workers have the best leverage for negotiations when there are no alternative sources of labor for corporations to scab with, and what group makes a better scab than disorganized, desperate, immigrants who probably lack the qualifications (education, experience, language) to enter a proper union?
Make no mistake, no one wants mass immigration more than the owner class.
That seems to make sense until you think about the additional growth in demand required to avoid industry shutdowns that is almost solely down to immigration, since the US birth rate is like 1.8 per woman.
Multinationals are happy to move the jobs to Mexico or Vietnam or China; they don’t need to employ immigrants in the US to lower labor costs.
Immigrant labor is actually cheaper when immigration is tightly controlled, at least it is in the US where "restricted" really just means more illegal immigrants rather than fewer overall. When you let people in legally, they're documented, unions can actually reach out to them, and they are protected by things like minimum wage.
Illegal immigrants are not.
Something like 70% of "illegals" in the US are illegally here for less than half the year. It's agricultural workers who just don't go home when the season ends.
These people do nothing to harm the 7% of private employees who are already in unions.
I'm talking about the best interests of existing union workers.
Have you spoken to many on-the-ground union workers?
This is exactly what those people are opposed to. They want their Unions to be exclusive with a small labor pool. Less workers + good Union support = more money per worker. There are obviously some exceptions.
Fewer legal immigrants doesn't mean fewer workers, it just means fewer people being paid above board. That extra money doesn't go to union members, it goes to stock buybacks and CEO packages. The more of a company's workforce is part of the union, the stronger the union's negotiating position, and THAT'S how unions get more money for their members.
This is a notoriously difficult thing to prove out either way in data, and I'm sure it varies situationally.
The Mariel Boatlift natural experiment did not demonstrate a decrease in wages or increase in unemployment. It makes sense: immigrants both work and consume (i.e., create demand). Unless every immigrant happens to work in the same industry/union, the sum total of immigrants may create demand for labor equal to or greater than they fill.
It also may have the impact you're suggesting. But it doesn't have to be zero sum. And, understandably, people only remember when they lost a job potentially tied to immigrant labor. Nobody asks if the job they're applying to was created due to demand immigrants added to the economy (and how could a company know that?).
Worked in many union shops as a degree operational support function. Typical union front line are dumb fuck conservatives with let's go Brandon bumper stickers. They're making $45/hr and don't realize they're supporting the party that wants them making $14/hr like the warehouse next to theirs.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hYTQ7__NNDI
As someone who worked in a union I can vouch for this ^
Most of the guys I worked with don't even like the union they are in, they felt they were cheated into giving their money away for "no backup"
When in reality these guys would have lost their jobs YEARS AGO but because the union defends them against management, but because these guys can't do what ever the hell they want (ie call in 80 out of 90 days, taking 1 hour breaks, having todo what their job description says) they just don't care...
They also think "They'll never out source our jobs, or robots can't replace us!" When in fact management DID do that years ago but the Union won in deliberations and everyone seems to have forgotten.
I hate this timeline
I swear people are so goddamn dumb...
Fuck I just looked for work yesterday and found a union job pushing a pallet jack around for an overnight position: 60-75k!!
Every single other similar non union job: best I can do is 35k
Most people only consider a few key stances when deciding on a candidate. The GOP is anti-union but that may not be what is most important to truckers in a union.
The truckers themselves, sure. But the union as an organization should care.
I do generally think it's more of a case where American workers are often reactionary due to America's overall circumstances and Material Conditions in the broader geopolitical landscape, than anything else. Nationalism is a big thing in America, Union or not.
Imperialism also inflates Worker's living standards, as well as keeping a domestic underclass of immigrants willing to work for the barest wages via threat of expulsion. Unions can often be anti-immigration because of this, additionally adding to reactionary rhetoric among unions.
The secret ingredient is racism
e; alright, since someone else brought it up, breaking the railroad strike in 2022 probably didn't do Biden any favors, but the only difference between what Biden did there and what Trump would have done is Trump probably would've tried to find a way to have a SWAT team raid union offices or some crap when he did it, and no union president (whose whole job is dealing with political coalitions and compromises) is going to be dumb enough not to know this, so I maintain racism is the only thing that explains O'Brien's behavior.
e2; Also, every other union saw what Biden did with the rail strike, and y'know what a ton of them did? Endorsed him because they're not getting anyone better this election and they know it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240716183809/https://www.commondreams.org/news/unions-endorse-biden-2024
https://web.archive.org/web/20240716183830/https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/politics/biden-building-trades-union-endorsement/index.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20240716183834/https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/united-auto-workers-union-expected-endorse-biden-rcna135444
I can’t even think of a GOP person who wants unions to be a thing.
He didn't actually endorse Trump or Vance which is key. If he had, well, fuck him. But he demanded concessions.
That said: more than anything if you look at the crowd you'll see the remarkable difference between the ruling class attending and the working class base that make up the GOP. That was a speech to the GOP's working class base to make demands.
I have strong doubts if it will be fruitful, but I'm willing to see it out. Took some balls to make that speech without endorsing anyone.
Some of my republican coworkers are now saying he is a great guy that stands for the working man. Maybe that was the play.
When the fuck has a "business man" ever given a shit about anything but money?
Never but people are endlessly stupid. Maybe those racist allegations are true.
With questionable situations like this I take into account two possibilities:
"We shall do this thing unless a thing happens that convinced us not too!"
Hail Hydra!
Because he may be better, but he's still not good.