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there is another, far more dangerous...
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this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2024
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What's up with the casual Islamophobia recently?
Let's not make this into reddit.
Not all criticism is Islamophobia.
Lmao this is criticism?
Yea it’s fuckin dumb to murder people over cartoon drawings.
It isn't as dumb as it is bigoted to imply that muslims are murderous extremists.
Maybe, but that’s not what’s happening here.
Pop quiz: name a group of people who could be considered the 'fanbase' of the prophet named Muhammad.
The mistake you’re making here is the only person saying ALL Muslims are like this in this thread is you. That would be a bigoted statement but only you are saying that.
I don't know what to tell you man, bigotry doesn't have some kind of prerequisite precision of language that makes it so.
If someone said 'fanatical trans people will sexualize your children if you leave them alone together', it would be pretty clear what the intent and effect of the statement was even though it doesn't explicitly name all trans people as its subject. It's crazy that it's taking more than one comment for you to see the problem, even if you feel it isn't a big deal.
Just because you didn't see the bigotry of the statement in its first reading doesn't mean it isn't there - if anything it just means you share the same bigoted perspective of the OP.
Ah, but there’s a key difference between your example and the one here. There is zero real world evidence of trans people being any more likely to be sexual predators, so the example you gave would be a bigoted statement predicated on a lie. However it is an undeniable fact that there are Islamist extremists who make credible death threats and frequently follow through when people draw pictures. That’s what makes it a legitimate criticism.
First: I'm not going to be linking to any evidence of this (equally bigoted) statement because I don't want anyone here to be confused about the intent of the comparison. But it should go without saying that there are absolutely examples of trans individuals committing sexual assaults - just like how any other random sampling of people large enough will contain examples of any number of hideous crimes committed by those people.
Second: The point isn't that there are people who commit those crimes within that group, the problem comes from attributing those people to a quality or belief shared by an entire minority (in the western world) of people whose membership in that group makes them subject to violence, bigotry, and marginalization themselves.
It isn't criticism, it's islamophobia, and has been used as the justification for all kinds of unspeakable violence committed against Muslims all across the world.
Phobia is an irrational fear. Being afraid of extremists who want to brutally murder you for drawing a cartoon is perfectly rational.
This is a poor semantic argument. It actually originates with right-wing rhetoric around "homophobia".
The argument also hinges on there being only one meaning to a word. Kinda like how Trump is confused about how you can be Asian and Black.
I am honestly shocked at the level of bigotry in this meme and this comment.
Comparing Islam to a fanbase that will 'literally murder you for showing a picture' is so obviously Islamophobic I don't know how else to say it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting
Read up dipshit, they specifically murdered people because they were offended by cartoons of their prophet. The murderers themselves cited their religion as motivation. Go on, explain to me how that wasn't really what they're upset about, I'll wait.
It is the attribution of that extremism to being a part of 'muhammad's fanbase' that is islamaphobic, not pointing to an example of the extremism itself.
A member of a group committing murder and citing that group's beliefs isn't a justification for casually implying that members of that group are murderous, even if it's true is the most limited sense of the word.
Especially when that group is itself subject to extreme violence and genocide on the basis of their membership.
I assure you that I take pleasure in offending religious fruitcakes of all sorts.
Offensive: "christians believe that an imaginary flying bearded man in the sky speaks to them"
Bigoted: "Muslims are barbaric murderers that will kill you for showing a picture of their prophet"
You see the difference there?
But christians are barbaric murderers who will kill you for not converting to Christianity. I am not sure which of us is more confused.
I am quite sure it's you who is confused.
Not really seeing a ton of violence against Muslims or Christians where I am tbh.
Can you expand on this point? It’s not immediately clear what difference you are trying to highlight.
One is mocking the belief of a group by portraying it as ridiculous, the other is a bigoted portrayal of a group as homicidal on the basis of their belief.
The meme isn't offensive toward 'religious fruitcakes' (the use of this word is kinda ironic but unrelated), it's actively bigoted and Islamophobic. Socsa was presumably defending the meme by saying they enjoy offending all religions and not just islam, and I was pointing out that the post wasn't simply offensive, it was bigoted.
Edit: responding here because this post was removed on my home instance for Islamophobia.
It isn't a critique, it is portraying Muslims as fanatical murderers.
In the same way that you would 'critique' Christianity, which justifies acts of terror such as bombing PFP clinics with Genesis 9:6, or Romans 13.
Extremists in Christianity are not seen as representative of the faith, but they are for Islam.
I’m really, honestly trying to understand your perspective to the point of being weird and following you around in a comment section, but you’re still coming across to me as just saying “it’s never ok to criticize bad Islamic practices, it’s automatically bigotry.”
Let’s flip this on its head, maybe that will help. I assume you find the practice of brutally murdering people for the act of drawing a picture of a fictional character to be bad. How would you phrase a legitimate criticism of the practice without being bigoted?
Nah, bigoted would be saying "these people are inferior humans because they have stupid beliefs." Or perhaps the act of infantilizing people for use as an ideological cudgel.
What I am saying is that they are very normal, run of the mill humans, and that having stupid beliefs is pretty typical of the human condition, writ large.