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this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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politics
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Yep, here to convince us that Stein isn't still just one of Putin's useful idiots trying to get us a 2nd Trump administration like she did in 2016. And it wasn't just Wisconsin that she handed to Trump in 2016.
Here are the Stein votes from 2016 vs Trump's margin of victory in those states.
Michigan: 51,463/10,704
Pennsylvania: 49,678/46,765
Wisconsin: 31,006/22,177
Without Stein on the ballots in those states, there would have been no Trump administration.
Also, from OP's article:
Everyone, including Stein, knows Putin helped her last time, whether she knew it then or not. She must realize he's helping her again and she knows what the likely result is. She knows she can't win the presidency, all she can do is help Trump win.
Voting is a fundamental American right, and every citizen has the right to vote for the candidate they believe in, without being accused of ulterior motives.
The idea that supporting a third party is somehow working for Trump or any other major candidate is both historically inaccurate and logically flawed.
Throughout American history, third parties have played a crucial role in shaping political discourse and pushing important issues into the spotlight.
The abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, and labor rights were all advanced by third parties before being adopted by the major parties.
The notion that a vote for a third party “dilutes” the vote is rooted in a fear-driven mentality rather than in democratic principles.
It assumes that votes are owned by the two major parties, which they are not. Our electoral system is supposed to represent the diverse views of the electorate, not just those of the dominant parties.
Suggesting that Jill Stein is a “Russian stooge” dismisses legitimate political discourse and attempts to silence alternative viewpoints. It’s a tactic to coerce voters into conformity rather than encouraging healthy debate and democracy.
Democracy thrives on diversity of thought.
I must admit, I do find it slightly ironic that you champion diversity of thought in bold typeface, except for the thought that Stein might be working with Russia. That thought is apparently special and should be barred. This is hypocritical.
There is nothing logically flawed with the idea that she may be coordinating with American rivals in any way, shape or form. Plenty of people throughout history have worked to harm our country for their own best interest, and rationally it would behove us to consider the possibility instead of granting her some immunity to suspicion that no other politician receives.
I don't "bar" that thought at all. You are free to think that. I don't think it. News orgs don't seem to think it, and I would think hat would be a major front page article if there were evidence of it.
But you are totally free to think that. And say that. But I don't agree/belive that, so I would reply the same.
Again, that would be major news. So I personally don't think that.
It very much was in the news. Every time that news is presented to you though, you simply pivot to her campaign statement about it being a speech about peace. To a dictator.
It very much was NOT in the news as proof. In fact, newsweek wrote about it. Plus The Senate Intelligence Committee investigated the trip and found no wrongdoing whatsoever.
I know that you lean conspiracy, I get it. You want it to be true. Bu there has been no conclusive proof that she is paid for by the Russians. The Russians tried to divert left leaning voters away from Clinton by boosting Stein’s candidacy. There is ZERO evidence there that Stein was contacted by Russia or even aware of the way in which her campaign was being hijacked.
You believe she is, I don't believe she is. It's that simple. Just accept it and move on.
Harris will win by a landslide anyway, so you don't even have to worry about it. lol
Not changing my vote, tho!
Have I ever claimed she was paid by the Russians? This is you trolling, saying I am saying something that I have never said.
Also, you cannot say she was not contacted by Russia when she was inside of Russia. Russia is full of Russians, as I imagine you knew.
You cannot dispute basic facts, but you can make up lies like "she was never contacted by Russia" when she very provably went to Russia and sat with their leader.
Have I asked you to change your vote? Or do I simply like facts being straight?
edit: Oh, and she never actually complied with that investigation, by the way. I forgot that detail.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/30/politics/jill-stein-russia-documents-senate-request/index.html
Have I ever claimed she was paid by the Russians? This is you trolling, saying I am saying something that I have never said.
Oh ok, so you DON'T believe she is being paid by the Russians then? Right?
And again, stop accusing me of trolling. We have had this conversation. If you say I am "a troll" or that I am "trolling" again, I will report you to the mods.
It is a baseless accusation and you and I have already had this conversation.
Stop.
I mean, contact as in they didn't contact her to pay her to run against trump.
Yet again: https://www.newsweek.com/jill-stein-ties-vladimir-putin-explained-1842620
Didn't say you wanted me to change my vote. Because you DO support me voting for whoever I wish, right?
Not changing my vote.
You can report me as much as pleases you, that is fine, but it is absolutely a common trolling tactic when you make claims for me that I have not made, just so you can argue against them. It's dishonest and unconducive to healthy conversation, and a very common tactic of practiced trolls. So, report away.
Oh, so it's contact her to pay her to run now? How convenient, you certainly didn't explain anything like that earlier. And you call me the conspiracist?
Let's review the basic facts: Jill Stein attended Putin's gala for his propaganda network. She sat at his table. She did not cooperate with the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation. She neglects to criticize Russia, either on their climate policies or the invasion of Ukraine. Russia assists her by working to funnel votes for her.
Against these facts, all you have is her campaign statement about a speech regarding "peace", to a dictator that had already been helping Assad in Syria wage war on his own people, and a Senate investigation she did not cooperate with.
No, I have not told you to change your vote, the only one bringing up you changing your vote is you, pretty much every time it seems. This trolly attitude becomes tiresome, but I'm afraid I'm not going to let you continue to muddle facts.
Just because some trolls does that, doesn't mean I am a troll.
Dude, we have had this conversation, both in public and private. Remember when we agreed to be more civil about this.
You have to stop accusing me of being a troll. You have ZERO PROOF, and I have proven to you many many times in my comments and my post history that I am not a troll.
Stop accusing me of being a troll, and keep the comments civil.
Accusing me of being a troll is against the subs rules. You have already had comments removed for calling me a troll. And now you are doing it again. Are you trying to get banned or something?
Just stop. Block me, and move on.
We have talked about this several times. I don't believe that she is paid for by russia? Ok? Let it go.
So you support and respect my right to vote for whoever I please. Right?
I don't want to report you again. But if you call me a troll again, I will, and I'll ask that they view all the times you have done it. They banned another user from this community for doing that.
Do you really wanna get banned from a community just because you wouldn't stop calling a person a troll. Is that your end game here? I don't get it.
Block me, move on, and/or accept it. I'm voting for JIll Stein. And you support and respect my right to do that, right? Ok, then move on.
You have proven nothing except that you are willing to engage in dishonesty and have a large amount of free time on your hands.
If my comments trouble you, and you believe they break the rules, then you should probably report me. I'm afraid you're not going to find much success by threatening me though.
There you go again, all you have left is "paid by Russia", despite, again, me never accusing her of being paid by Russia. Despite me clearly saying that just one post ago, you simply repeat it. This is a classic logical fallacy known as a stawman argument, and when done intentionally, clearly a trolling activity.
Vote for whatever you want, but if you try to muddle facts, I'll be here to call you out.
I haven't muddled anything. You have your opinion. I have mine.
Please keep any further comments civil. And we will never have a private discussion again, so you can stop DM'ing as well.
And not only that, but the article is now out of date, because the commission decided to keep Jill Stein on the ballot.
Your change in attitude and tone regarding your public comments to me vs your private comments to me is disappointing.
I no longer want to have any further discussions with you, and I will no longer reply to any of your comments. Thank you.
Yes, you most definitely muddle facts by continuing to reframe the conversation as Jill Stein being paid by Russians after being roundly crushed when you repeatedly try to claim she was never contacted by Russia.
Uh, you DMed me. lol
I'm being quite civil, and pretty exhaustively patient even. Identifying logical fallacies and trolling is not uncivil.
I'm sorry for being so disappointing I guess, but if you stick to factuality instead of making up blatant lies then we shall have no issues. This will be regardless of the topic you are posting under, so long as it is within this or other news communities I participate in. Any overt trolling you engage in that I see will be called out, regardless of how voluminously you complain about it or claim you've "proved" otherwise.