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[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 69 points 4 months ago

Cool. I switched to Tuta because it fits my use case better (2 domains, one for my personal email and one for everything else). I don't need any of the bells and whistles Proton has, and I also don't want to pay extra to get more domains. The Tuta app kinda sucks, but it gets the job done. I'm hoping my wife and kids will be interested in private email, but they don't seem to care, and I don't think they'd like the tradeoffs.

Now, if Proton revises their tiers, I might be interested. Give me something like the Tuta tiers, and I'll probably switch to it. I prefer the UX of Proton, but $10/month is a bit steep for me, especially since I'm not going to use the other stuff they're bundling in (I use Bitwarden for PW manager, have my own NAS, and I prefer Mullvad over Proton for VPN).

That said, it's super cool that they're going non-profit. When that's done, I'll give it another look.

[-] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 4 months ago

They also have mail-only tier at 4.99.

[-] doctortran@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

Does that include the IMAP bridge and multiple addresses?

[-] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 4 months ago

I don't know, you'll have to check yourself. Multiple addresses yes, though, 10 of them.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago

Yup, but only one custom domain. I really want at least two domains, one with tons of aliases for various accounts, and the other for personal communications. I could use a proton.me address for it, but then it becomes a huge pain to switch to another service should I need to.

[-] doctortran@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago

Problem with Tuta for me is its too closed off.

Proton at least offers an IMAP bridge, Tuta utterly refuses to let you use your email outside their apps, which makes it more of a messaging app. And the fact there's no way to export everything easily or even forward messages rubs me the wrong way. I tried them and have been using them for about 2 years but I'd definitely love to get away from it.

I'm tired of these walled gardens. I don't give a damn how secure it is, if I can't leave it with my shit, then no thanks.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

Yeah, it's annoying, but I honestly don't use any email clients anyway. So whether I use the Tuta or Proton app/website is essentially the same for me.

But you can export your email (select all then click "Download"), but unfortunately forwarding isn't a thing. That does put a bit of a wrinkle into my longer-term use of it, so if Proton can become price-competitive for my use-case (and no, I'm not paying $10/month for email), I'll probably switch. But since I can export them in some way, it's not a deal breaker.

[-] Arn_Thor@feddit.uk 5 points 4 months ago

You say you use Bitwarden. Is that self hosted by any chance? If so, how do you handle the potential for an outage or server failure, where you’d presumably need some of the passwords to fix the problem in the first place.

[-] sudneo@lemm.ee 16 points 4 months ago

The Bitwarden client has all the data cached, so the server can be down and you still get access to the passwords (same for internet connection).

[-] Arn_Thor@feddit.uk 3 points 4 months ago

Thanks for the reply! That makes sense. I’m still weary of the client somehow losing the cache while the server is down (two holes in the Swiss cheese lining up) but that is overly paranoid I know that

[-] sudneo@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

You should definitely be! I take backups every 6h for my self hosted vaultwarden (easier to manage and to backup, but not official, YMMV). You can also restore each backup automatically and have a "second service" you can run elsewhere (a standby basically), which will also ensure the backup works fine.

I have been running bit/vaultwarden now for I think 6 years, for my whole family and I have never needed to do anything, despite having had a few hiccups with the server.

Don't take my word for it, but the clients (browser plugin, desktop app, mobile app) are designed to keep data locally I think. So the term cache might be misleading here because it suggests some temporary storage used just to save web requests, with a relatively quick expiration. In this case I think the plugin etc. can work potentially indefinitely without server - something to double-check, but I believe it's the design.

[-] Arn_Thor@feddit.uk 1 points 4 months ago

Yes, I figured the word “cache” was used loosely in this case. But you know, the server is down and/or irrecoverable for a while, and then one’s phone gets swiped. Not inconceivable. So I think I’ll follow some of the advice here about a backup service or password stash

[-] lemming741@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

I also self host vault warden, it's pretty straight forward. Like the other person said, it caches locally.

[-] Arn_Thor@feddit.uk 1 points 4 months ago
[-] superglue@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 months ago

The local cache solves this problem mainly. Mine also replicates to one of my other servers occasionally.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

How do you set up local caching? For non-phones?

Edit: TIL there are windows, Mac, and Linux apps for it. Sheesh.

[-] priapus@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 months ago

Yep, the browser extensions also have an encrypted cache, although it is less consistent imo. I've had times where my server was down and the extension just completely logged out then couldn't authenticate so I couldn't access the cache.

[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Also TIL about the browser extensions!

[-] iN8sWoRLd@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

There is a setting now (in all types of client I think) to log out when you close down the browser. Your comment makes me realize that I probably want to NOT set that on at least one machine. I set that on the machines that are out and about.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Mine isn't currently, but I'm working on it. The main complexity is that my wife and I share some passwords, and I want to make sure I do it properly so that transition is as smooth as possible. Vaultwarden is what you'd use to self-host.

But as others have said, I'm really not worried about it. Passwords are cached locally and only touch the server when syncing to the server. I want to self-host to protect against breaches, not because I'm worried about connectivity loss.

You can always backup your passwords (there's an export feature) if you're worried about it. I haven't done it, but I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to have a KeePass backup or something that you update manually every so often.

[-] MadBigote@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Are you me? Lol I feel the same about tuta, yet I such with them. I am waiting for my wife to care for her privacy and switch to a family bundle with tuta.

Got my own NAS and a Bit warden server for PW. I changed Mullvad over AirVPN once they stopped supporting port forwarding, though.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

Yup, confirmed, I am you.

The Tuta app kinda sucks, especially for searching, but I do that rarely enough that it's fine. It did annoy me a bit when I was traveling in Canada and needed to find my confirmation code for something (had to connect to their wifi, wait for emails to download, search, etc), but it got the job done. I love that I can just add another person to my plan for another €3 or whatever. I'm going to try to get my kids interested even if my wife isn't, and it's nice that I can just add a little at a time. With Proton, that would jump up to $15 for two users, $24 for my family (three kids). That's a lot more than Tuta, which is just €3/user/month, so my entire family would be €15/month ($17/month), and I don't need to get everyone on all at once (i would probably only add one or two at first).

So Tuta meets my basic needs, is priced very competitively, and the client is FOSS. I'm actually excited about some upcoming updates (looks like having the subject in the notification just landed, but hasn't hit F-Droid yet), and I love how their roadmap is very open.

That said, I do miss the UX of Proton. I just don't think that's worth more for fewer features I actually use. Hopefully that changes.

this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2024
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