382
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2024
382 points (97.0% liked)
News
23259 readers
1604 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Protests are largely only effective if they’re disruptive. That’s kind of the point… a protest you can easily ignore isn’t going to change anything.
And the point isn’t really to gain support, it’s to force change.
Edit: To expand on this, there are much more effective ways to gain support; mainly through community interaction, conversation and education. Which should be seen as separate action vs. protesting.
Edit 2: Upon re-reading my comment I would like to amend my statement that the point is to force “change”. While change is the desired outcome, the point of protests is to force awareness.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but my objection is to the following argument that some people are making:
I have the right to protest.
My protest isn't going to be effective unless I am disruptive.
Therefore, I have the right to be disruptive.
I'm saying that (3) doesn't follow from (1) and (2). The right to speak does not imply the right to be heard and obeyed.
While I feel we mostly are in agreement, I have a problem with the verbiage you use. Specifically the idea that the desired outcome is to force the population at large to “obey” protesters.
While no one should be forced to “obey” a protest, the disruption itself is often necessary to make the issues visible and impossible to ignore. It’s not about the right to be heard and obeyed, but about ensuring that the issues at hand cannot be easily dismissed or overlooked. Disruption, when done with purpose, has historically been a critical tool for marginalized groups to bring about the changes that polite appeals often fail to achieve.
Yes, but the point is that being disruptive is often going against the rules. So, having rules to control when protests can happen is a bit of a misnomer.
The question is whether the punishment will match the crime. Protesting before 5pm, youre at risk of a $50 fine and an apology letter to the class you disrupted. Or, you will be kicked out of university costing you your chosen career and the amount you've paid thus far.
Protests should be disruptive. The university has to try and minimise the disruption to normal activity. At the same time, the univeraity shoukd want to foster free tjought and dissemination of ideas, peacefully, even if taboo or against current accepted norms of thought. The protestors need to disrupt normal activity. The protestors are also students that pay the university, so pay their bils. The university also has other educational, financial and hr responsibility. Its a balance for both.
While universities have a duty to maintain order and educate, they also have a responsibility to be spaces where free thought can challenge existing norms. Disruption, though uncomfortable, often serves as the catalyst for meaningful dialogue and progress. If protests were only allowed to occur within strict confines, they might lose their power to inspire the kind of reflection and change that has historically made educational institutions breeding grounds for progress.
Balancing the need for order with the need for protest is tricky, but history shows that sometimes, it’s the disruptions that push us all forward. In my opinion, those (often powerful) institutions should be tempering their response to these disruptions; rather than asking their student body to temper their actions.
There is no greater opportunity for the exploration and development of radical thought than by allowing students to be a part of that future history (should they choose to).
I think you make a good point. I approach things from my libertarian-leaning background, so my focus is usually on negative rights and "don't tread on me". However, the real world is complicated and so local application of the non-aggression principle is in practice often insufficient. I still insist that preventing disruption does not infringe on the right to free speech, but I will concede that sometimes a reasonable level of disruption is necessary to achieve just ends.
Of course as soon as a non-zero limit is considered acceptable, the limit becomes a matter of opinion and pushing the limit is incentivized. I prefer absolutes, but I guess there's no escape from the need for good judgement.
Edit: I also want to say that I really appreciate your thoughtful comments.
You’ve made some really good points and I’ll be thinking on them in the days to come.
I don’t have much else to add, but I do want to say that I really appreciate the honest and nuanced discussion here.
At the end of the day, we don’t always have to always agree on every specific detail and these kinds of discussions allow us to explore our biases and will shape our collective responses. And that is good for the community as a whole…