168
submitted 2 months ago by FlyingSquid@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] oakey66@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's important to understand that this is only because the hostages aren't returned. If every hostage was returned, Israel would be looking for every opportunity to level Gaza and further displace Palestinians in the West Bank. Israelis rioted for the right of soldiers to rape prisoners.

Edit: Israelis rioted instead of Israel.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 34 points 2 months ago

You cannot assume the people protesting here are the same as the people in that riot. That is not fair to them.

[-] oakey66@lemmy.world 26 points 2 months ago

As a Jew who fled the USSR in the 1980s, I fully co-sign Norman Finklestein‘s (a Jewish intellectual and scholar on the subject who lost his family to the Nazi holocaust) assessment that Israel is a sick society.

In October, 58% Israelis polled said that Israel is using too little firepower in Gaza.

In December, they were polled and asked to what extent should Israel take into account the suffering of the Palestinian civilian population. Over 80% said to a little extent.

https://truthout.org/articles/polls-show-broad-support-in-israel-for-gazas-destruction-and-starvation/

load more comments (9 replies)
[-] Orbituary@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

While I agree with you, I can't entirely discount /u/oakey66. History has proved it for decades.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

I can't discount that there are plenty of Israeli bigots who would love to see Palestine wiped out, sure. But let's not pretend they're a hive mind. And maybe not tar the people doing this with the same brush as the ones rioting over rapists being imprisoned.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

If there are dissenting voices in Israel they need to speak up. And if voices within Israel are speaking up they need to be amplified.

All dissent I've heard has come from the diaspora.

[-] Kudusch@startrek.website 3 points 2 months ago

“Without the return of the hostages we will not be able to end the war, we will not be able to rehabilitate ourselves as a society,” Ron Tomer, president of the Manufacturers’ Association of Israel. Te me, “Rehabilitation” implies a level of dissent with Netanyahu’s actions.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

I mean, I see what you are saying, but that is pretty rhetorically light. I can see this as maybe the start of something, but I think what we're seeing out of Israel warrants a more focused and directed conversation.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago

Then maybe you should, I don't know, click on the link at the top of this article and look at the photos.

Or possibly just read the headline of the post you're commenting in.

For fuck's sake...

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

They are protesting the retrieval of the hostages; not the genocide of the Gazan people. As far as I know, there are almost no voices in Israel speaking out against the genocide of the Gazan people.

Maybe you should read the article.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago

This article?

The protests came as the White House said that national security adviser Jake Sullivan held a virtual meeting with families of U.S. hostages held by Hamas in Gaza and ahead of Israeli labor union Histadrut calling a general strike for Monday to protest the Netanyahu government and demand an immediate hostage-release and ceasefire deal.

I read it.

Why are you gaslighting?

[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 8 points 2 months ago

The trigger for the protests and ceasefire demands was for the rescue hostages, not the end of the ongoing genocide.

load more comments (12 replies)
[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

@oakey66@lemmy.world started this thread with the topic:

If every hostage was returned, Israel would be looking for every opportunity to level Gaza and further displace Palestinians in the West Bank.

and they are right.

You said:

But let’s not pretend they’re a hive mind.

I pointed out that I've seen there are no sources I've seen to the contrary coming out of Israel. Everything I've seen to the contrary (sources which would make the argument that Israel should not be engaging in genocide, agreeing with @oakey66@lemmy.world 's point ) has been coming from diaspora sources, not sources within Israel.

You then responded with:

just read the headline of the post

But the headline of the article does not make that point, and neither does the article. In fact, its another unit of evidence to suggest there is almost no will to stop the genocide of the Gazan people coming from within Israel. The word genocide occurs no where in the article. There is no mention of forced removal. There is no mention of ethnic cleansing. These protests clearly have nothing to do with the ongoing genocide of the Gazan people and are solely focused on "getting the hostages back". If there are other sources or people that can speak for the protests that say other wise, I'd love to find them. I've not found anyone in Israel willing to call what the Israeli government is doing a genocide. Dissent in Israel wants the hostages back, but they don't seem to give a shit about the continuing genocide of the Gazan people.

If you think that these protest have anything to do with stopping the war or stopping the genocide, its yourself who has gaslit you.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago

Let me get this straight...

Are you really claiming that the entire population of Israel- all 9.5 million people- share exactly the same opinion on Palestine?

Because that would be incredibly fucking bigoted of you, so I want to make sure that's what you're saying.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

No, I'm making the point that if there is descent on this issue within Israel I can't find it. I haven't heard it. I'm also not going to project a desire to believe it exists onto a world where I don't have evidence for it. I want to find it. I've looked for it. I can't find it.

All the Jewish led criticism I've found of Israels actions appears to be coming from the diaspora. I can't find sources from within Israel calling the Israeli campaign a genocide or calling for it to stop.

load more comments (9 replies)
[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

If you want to believe this, its on you to show us it. The entire thread obviously knows much more about whats going on in Israel and all we've gotten from you is your projection of how you wish things were.

If this opposition to the Israeli led genocide exists within Israel show us.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Sure, right after I show you how I don't have dual loyalties to America and Israel, right? I have to show people that one all the time.

Of course, a lot of times, they don't believe me anyway.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

You are making a claim for the existence of a thing. No one else made that claim. We are asking for evidence of that claim. I've looked for evidence. I am not finding any evidence of a "don't genocide the Gazans" movement within Israel. I can find evidence outside of Israel.

load more comments (14 replies)
[-] Kudusch@startrek.website 3 points 2 months ago

This is conjecture as there are continuing anti-war protests in Israel by a number of different actors and groups, e.g.:

In May 2024, 1,400 academics signed a petition calling for an end to the war Israel–Hamas war protests in Israel, Wikipedia

In my opinion, the way you phrase your comment crosses into antisemitic narratives as the comment implies (at least in my reading) that all the people protesting are anti Palestine. Please note I’m not saying that you are in any way antisemitic. It just irks me how that comment is phrased

[-] oakey66@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

I’m Jewish. Go back to policing someone else.

this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
168 points (98.8% liked)

World News

38971 readers
2662 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS