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this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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No such thing. Ask away!
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But if you're anti fascism but pro authoritarianism, you're still wrong...
I highly recommend you give Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism and On Authority a read. At least On Authority, as it's a very short piece, but the two combined should give you a basic understanding of the historical and theoretical basis of why marxists defend the use of authority. I can understand where you are coming from, I was more than a little skeptical of authoritarianism when I was younger and still identified as an anarchist, but I think if you take the time to honestly engage with our position then you will at least understand why our stance is what it is, and how we are diametrically opposed to fascism, even if you don't agree with us.
Blackshirts and Reds was eye opening for me
Plenty HB users are authoritarian. I disagree with them in this; however I don't think that both things cancel out, given the fascism is orders of magnitude worse than authoritarianism alone.
Aaaand you're low-key defending authoritarianism...
Yeah, because saying "cat shit is not as huge as elephant shit" is the same as saying "cat shit is not shit". /s
This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.
This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.
Wtf is loam?
Loam (suglinok literally means "next to clay") is a sandy soil with under 35-40% clay content, as you can tell from the political compass I posted
Liberalism in the center? Gosh, this is the most American political coordinates there could be
It's almost physically triggering how off-base that is
I’m sorry, I’m an American where liberals are actually centrists, but can you explain to me what else is off-base about this chart?
Edit: I would also like to see a chart that is more accurate in your view if you have one available.
Generally, it is the fact that right-wing entails focus on businesses and private property owners, and left-wing entails direct focus on the economic wellbeing of everyone and a more egalitarian society. Liberals do not strike a meaningful balance here, and commonly see business freedoms as paramount to building a prosperous society, generally pursuing business-friendly policies.
In more extreme cases of the political spectrum (which I agree for in terms of clarity and fairness, but which are not really a consensus) left-wing is seen as actual socialism (i.e. collectively/socially owned enterprises) and right-wing is capitalism (i.e. private property and its operation for profit). This makes a useful and clear distinction in relation to economic policy and is not dictated by the hegemony of one option. It also makes centrism virtually impossible, which is good, because the meaning of "center" drifts radically between cultures, and most people tend to just associate with whatever is predominant in their culture while calling themselves such.
Here is how voters of neighboring Canada have put themselves on a political compass, on average, in relation to their party of choice during the 2019 election. Note that liberals are very much not in the center, and more right-wing, while conservatives as well as People's party (don't look at the name, it's seen as far right even by American metrics), predictably, are extremely authoritarian-right.
P.S. Sorry for being a bit rash :)
I see US liberals as defending both social and economic policies. Here are some examples I can think of:
I am just speaking to what I observe, but I think the trick the liberal party in my country play is a show of being “for the people” and giving concessions but, in the end, being absolutely capitalist motivated.
Yes! The latter part of what you say explains exactly to me why liberals cannot be the center.
Being "for the people" is more of a show here, while they are funded and act in the interest of businesses. When people do demand change that goes against capitalists, they will play everything to keep the spectacle while clearly not choosing people's side. Often times, they don't even give concessions - just pretend internal struggles stopped them from implementing the changes. And at the same time, this doesn't break the logic of liberalism.
Thanks for clearing that up. Also, I find it ironic talking to another leftist on the Hexbear hate thread.
Heh
Not a Hexbear member, though. Generally, Lemmy is heavily left-leaning.
I can see you’re not a hexbear, but this is a post in a .world comm where even enlightened takes on liberals such as yours aren’t always welcome. Anyway, thanks for the chat.
Why would you let a "chart" trigger you physically? What good will that do?
The point is that it skews the understanding of "left" and "right" to favor the latter.
Essentially serving as a tool to claim socialist policies extreme and liberal ones perfectly balanced.
Sounds like your just slurring his opinion without trying to be civil and engaging with honest logical discussion.
Which I would certainly engage in if I wouldn't remember you personally as a troll who cares little of civility.
If someone else is up for debating it, I'm always here.
Also, one thing you genuinely caught me on is a bit of an emotional outburst, while I generally am the one picking civility card. Good job! I do apologize for that part.
The coordinates are heavily skewed and likely to either be formed in a right-wing society or intentionally made as to confuse people.
Now your slurring me personally. Shame on you. How hard is it to believe I had a moment of emotional outburst? I hope you get the help you need and can be a kinder gentler person. Good day to you I hope your soul finds balance.
My apologies. I previously didn't see you in civil conversations, while meeting you in your rainy ways twice before, and I could be too quick to conclude. Lemmy is flooded with that kind of stuff lately, which turns brain into a razor mode as a way of protecting against an artificial hate wave.
If you'd like to politely discuss anything, I'm all for it.