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this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
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I don't even think it's a question of innovation, more just perceived reliability. A large part of the reason Mercedes and other German brands were considered high quality was that they were more reliable than a lot of other brands on the market, while being good to drive. That isn't really the case anymore, and Toyota and Honda have that basically cornered that market to the point that it's an outlier to fine one that isn't reliable.
"Good to drive" is a bit of an understatement. German cars have enjoyed car enthusiasts' favor for decades, despite often mediocre reliability, specifically because they were great to drive. There are multiple dimensions to that, ranging from the safety advantage (and fun) afforded by giving the driver a good feel for what's going on between the tires and the road surface, to an excellent balance of responsiveness and comfort from well-designed suspension. VW even ran an ad campaign around it: Fahrvergnügen
Japanese and American cars generally could not compete in this area.
However, those same German cars also became famous for developing endless little problems over the course of ownership, from annoying rattles to failing parts that were either expensive to buy or difficult to reach (and therefore expensive to replace).
If there was a time when German cars were known for above average reliability, I think it must have preceded the more recent generations. Maybe back before Japan had started investing in this area?
Sounds about right. Most of the Japanese manufacturers have had to put a higher amount of effort on reliability, in large part due to Toyota's amazingly strenuous testing of reliability before they even consider dropping a new product on the market. As a bit of a bonus to that, once reliability was upped, making more sporty cars could be achieved because you had the budget to change around the driving dynamics of a car without making it inherently unreliable. The Miata is probably the best example of this, as while each generations drivetrain usually isn't too special (outside of being high revving), it manages to handle well and be reliable while doing so.
Yeah - I never would buy a German car again in my life. Had a VW Jetta that died at only 130k miles. I’ve watched friends with BMWs get stuck with $4k repair bills with only 40k miles. The only reason they sell these days is because of this perception that they’re “luxurious.”
Mercedes and BMW were never known for reliability. They were known for combining luxury and a great driving experience, which couldn't be had from any other car company, even Porsche (which was only about driving not luxury until recently) or Cadillac (only luxury and not driving until recently). German engineering has been famous for poor reliability since at least the early 80s.
That sounds about right. I’m 30+ and I’ve only ever known BMW and Mercedes as unreliable rich people cars. I’m from a lower income town where most people drive more sensible compact Japanese cars. Also American models, but those were always considered less desirable long term. These days you do see a lot of shitty large pick up trucks from the more “affluent families” sadly.
You have no understanding of any market outside your own little bubble, and looking at your past comments really enjoy speaking from that vast void of Dunning-Kruger. It’s really pathetic.
What are you going on about? What specifically about my post makes you think I have no understanding of the German car market? I mean, I've only owned multiple BMWs, a Mercedes, and an Audi. I've driven Porsches on the racetrack and VWs on the autobahn. My parents and friends' parents had BMWs and Mercedes when I was a kid. I'm definitely no expert on the overall car market or even the German car market, but I've been a car enthusiast since I was a kid in the early 80s and have a decent understanding of the basics.
As a (multiple) Toyota owner for 25 years, I can attest to their quality, nothing has ever… ever, failed on me, and I still see my old 2003 Corolla on the road (friend)