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this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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Is everybody else using 'rhetoric' wrong or am I the one off base? Afaik, it just means 'speech', or maybe 'eloquence' in certain contexts, but I've never seen it used to mean 'lie' until jd opened his mouth and everybody else followed along.
Thus is a holdover from half remembered lessons on Plato I guess. Socrates is contrasted with the rhetoricians as seeking Truth, a noumenal thing beyond us that we discover (or recall as Socrates would put it). The rhetoricians representative Gorgias has his argument famously summed up as "man is the measure of all things", that is to say that nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so.
Rhetoricians famously taught people how to convince others of their point of view, essentially modern debate technique. Socrates undermined this practice by pointing out that the skills employed (tone of voice, rhythm, eloquence) had nothing to do with determining truth.
With this argument in mind we can see why "rhetoric" is now used as a shorthand for emotional appeals, or style over substance. Rhetoric is what you rely on when you cannot make a structured and logical argument, while in theory the truth is the truth even if delivered in a dull monotone of limited vocabulary.
I don't think it's being used as "lie" here, so much as "and I'm not just saying that, I really mean it". Rhetoric being used like speech in the sense that it's something that can be true or false vs something necessarily false
I agree with you. However, if one wanted to make the argument - I suppose you could say they're using in the second sense as defined by Websters:
2a
skill in the effective use of speech
b
a type or mode of language or speech
TFW "mode of speech" is "lies like a cheap rug"
Using the second definition, I'd still clarify as "false rhetoric" or something. Maybe that's just me shrug
Rhetoric does mean speech. It's usually used in a political context, so incediary rhetoric would be incidiary (political) speech.
Other than that, rhetoric is often equated with the policies talked about, so Trump's rhetoric would be anti-immigrant, anti-abortion, pro-Russia, etc.
As for the 'it's not rhetoric' part of the title - I think they meant it's not just speech, it's verifiable - so no direct meaning of 'lie' anywhere although the meaning of 'lie' is heavily implied.
When it's seldom used in my language, 'rhetoric' acts as a sum of similar opinions, talking points etc in a negative way, as holding no water or consisting of trickery and strawmen. One can say liberal rhetoric, partisan rhetoric, prehistoric rhetoric, whatever - it's a reference to a part of an existing discourse.
There author implies that it's not just words from a part of the audience with some possible exaggeration, it's all facts.
I have to assume you learned the literal definition of rhetoric because you attended at least one higher level education course. (Just to be clear: I am complimenting your understanding of the fact that words have meaning).
Most people absolutely use the word "rhetoric" to mean "lie", or more frequently: "a pathos that directly contrasts my own".
It has basically been forced into a completely different meaning as part of the lexicon of internet speech.