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this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2024
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Again.... I might just go back too being a Dem. I tried 3rd party but, this stuff keeps happing. I like the ideals just no was too do it from a third party way for the time being. Gotta change from with in I guess.
Not from within, from underneath. You effect change at the lower levels. Political change comes from the ground up. That's why Jill Stein is so frustrating cuz she takes all the money and attention that could be spent somewhere useful and instead spends it on a boondoggle for her own personal gain.
This. The Brits have a first past the post system. Greens now are winning mayorships and parliament seats and making deals with labor not to split the vote in their favor because they have been building local support for decades.
They are a force in their districts, so they get elected to office in their districts. Do that to a few dozen districts and you can meaningfully affect the balance of power in Westminster. Then you start getting into coalitions and supplying ministers.
You can’t just wake up once every four years and hope to be anything but a spoiler candidate.
100%
The two party system is incredibly frustrating. There is also a feeling of helplessness because the path to change is unclear. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans truly want more competition
The thing about change, if you're only looking at it from a big picture and not a large time period, it might look static. But there's lots of changes.
What you have to do is be local with your change. Obama was a community organizer and it's often talked about as as something that has had such an impact, it's changed everything.
All politics are local.
Stein will always fail because she's always attempting to create the changes from top down. The USA will never work like that.
That’s a good way to put it.
It's not a question of wanting competition or not. Political parties by nature will attempt to get as strong a coalition as they can, until they reach a size large enough that bisecting the party still leaves one half in power and some internal disagreememt triggers the split.
Fringe parties in America, like the Green and Libertarian parties, arent oppressed by some conspiracy between Rs and Ds. Rather, they are left at the fringe because they do not have any power worth pledging to, for the simple fact that in the american single-rep plurality-wins system tbere is no prize for second place.
Voters who like the current office holder work to keep them in power and those who do not work with the opposition to remove the incumbent from power. Anyone not joining one of these sides serves only as a tool for one side against the other, since anything but a vote for the runner up is an effective endorsrment of the eventual winner.
The American system is imperfect and could be a lot better, but fringe parties and vanity campaigns do nothing to actually encourage systemic change.
Greens local, Dems for state and nation. You are just throwing away your vote otherwise.
Not even Greens, they don't put any serious effort into local elections either. Any other (serious) third party would be better locally.
Spend energy pushing for alternative voting methods like ranked choice, approval, or STAR voting. Those have seen success up to state levels.
I'm in FL, so the alternative voting methods is mostly illegal, and to undo it is unlikely for a little while (20 or 30 years).
Oy. Good old party of freedom...
Although it only bans ranked choice voting so at the very least approval voting would be an option. The STAR method might be iffy.
Regardless, changing local voting methods is much more likely than a 3rd party candidate getting elected to the presidency with no candidates at the local level.
Good on you! Please still get involved in changing the system and supporting third parties, but, for now, that work is most effective in local elections and between the general elections. That, and voting in the D or R primaries to vote out incumbents or to select a party candidate who's more in line with your priorities.
Third parties only seem interested in the presidency. Instead the should work on local elections instead. Build up to federal seats but that is not their goal. They only want to spoil one party nowadays.