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Exploding Pager and The Law
(lieber.westpoint.edu)
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this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2024
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Don’t confuse targeting with who gets hurt at the end. It’s generally not allowed under international law to target civilians. Civilians getting killed when military objectives are targeted are legal. Proportionally and necessity come into play here.
It can be legal under international law to kill a combatant in his family home together with his whole family, if that prevents a planned attack that would kill another family for example. The target is the combatants not his family.
Good numbers are hard to come by. However Hezbollah themselves say that their fighters were targeted and reported 3000 exploding pagers. A low number of around a dozen others were injured or killed as well. That’s a ratio of less than 1 civilian per 100 combatants hit. Compare that go Gaza, which has about 2 to 3 civilians per combatant killed.
This is true but it's only fine if you target "fighters" according to the blog. So it depends on the details of who these people exactly were, just being in Hezbollah is not enough. As you said it's whether it's truly proportional and necessary.
And for the targeting thing I think the main issue is whether it was possible in this case to control or even minimize the collateral damage. Since you don't really know the situation you're setting a bomb off in:
As you said, don't confuse targeting with who gets hurt at the end. It didn't come out too bad (by Israel's standards at least) but that doesn't mean they exercised the due care in how they did it, legally.
Would be interested to see where you got those numbers
About 40,000 killed total in Gaza. 15,000 militants killed. That’s 25,000 civilians killed. These are estimates.
It will take years until we get good numbers on this.
According to Israel every adult male is a terrorist. Remember they are even using AI to target them. And if I remember correctly around 20K are the kids and women killed. So I hardly doubt that the number of Hamas fighters is so high.
You know we will never know what their ratio is, because Israel can claim whatever they want without providing proof that those killed were indeed terrorists. You remember them killing their own hostages or the FCK? This simply shows how indiscriminate they are in the killings and how little they care about civilian casualties.
And remind me if any of their soldiers actually get an effective sentence for committing a grave offence.
We will know. Hamas and other militant groups have published their martyred fighters about a year after the wars ended in the past.
So a low estimate of deaths (not counting people under the rubble for instance) and Israel's claim on the number of Hamas dead.
Absolutely it will take years! So all claims about civilian to militant ratio in Gaza are unreliable and we should probably not make them