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[-] nonailsleft@lemm.ee 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Its hard to imagine why Iran would want to attack Israel knowing that doing so would prompt escalation with aforementioned western hegemony, the USA, Germany, NATO allies, etc., unless you want to assert that Iran is just illogical and so chaotically evil they can’t function in their own best Interest, which doesn’t match the history of a western enemy who has persevered under decades of severe sanctions.

Maybe if the facts don't fit the theory, there's something wrong with it?

People want to win, gain power etc. . When the resistance to Israel dwindles, and its existence is a fait accompli ands its violent history long gone (just like, well, every other country in the world) then Israel; the zionists; the jews have won and Iran; the shiites; the muslims; pan-islamist have lost. You don't seem to fathom how important this is for religious fundamentalists. It's far more important for a lot of people than having a gold watch on their wrist or a Ferrari to drive.

In war and politics, not every outcome is clear or binary. Should Nelson Mandela and the ANC have given up their risky fight because they faced violent repression? Should Nazi Germany have diverted resources to aid Italy against Greece instead of strengthening their attack against Russia? Same goes for Iran and Israel. Not immediately having a perfect outcome doesn't mean the intent had to be totally different.

since countries like Saudi Arabia and Bahrain had been economically partnering with Israeli interests for a number of years prior to normalization, mediated through western partners, this points toward the preeminence of the economic element of global conflict over the religious justifications, which also throws your whole thesis into question.

No it doesn't. These are different people. The monarchies of SA and Bahrain are far, far more concerned with gold watches and Ferraris than they are with improving shia influence in the Levant.

[-] Juice@midwest.social 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Well I accept your criticism that I haven't done enough hard research to thoroughly and convincingly dispute your theory of fundamentalism as the driving force behind all these conflicts. I don't agree with it, and earlier I tried stitching together previous points that I've made, such as western support for fundamentalism as a destabilizing force, as well as a history of propping up islamists and sabotaging popular secular leaders such as Mahmoud Barghouti, who has been imprisoned for decades and undergoes constant torture by the Israelis for a crime he almost certainly did not commit. But there are uncertainties I'm not comfortable with and I'm not going to waste our time grasping at straws. So I deleted that comment and wrote this one.

So I'm going to study, find the through lines or understand in greater depth the parts that are missing from my analysis so that when the dust settles and all the facts come in, maybe I'll be able to furnish a useful analysis for the people I work with to oppose imperialism here in the States.

So thanks for the discussion. Take care.

this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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