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submitted 1 month ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Case of Anthony Thomas ‘TJ’ Hoover II is under investigation by state and federal government officials

A man who had gone into cardiac arrest and been declared brain dead woke up as surgeons in his home state of Kentucky were in the middle of harvesting his organs for donation, his family has told media outlets.

As reported Thursday by both National Public Radio and the Kentucky news station WKYT, the case of Anthony Thomas "TJ" Hoover II is under investigation by state and federal government officials. Officials within the US's organ-procurement system insist there are safeguards in place to prevent such episodes, though his family told the outlets their experience highlights a need for at least some reform.

...

WKYT reported that Rhorer only learned the full details of her brother's surgery at the hands of Baptist and the Kentucky Organ Donor Affiliates (Koda) in January. That's when a former employee of Koda contacted her before sending a letter to a congressional committee that in September held a hearing scrutinizing organ-procurement organizations, NPR reported.

The letter's author said she saw Hoover begin "thrashing" around on the operating table as well as start "crying visibly", according to NPR.

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[-] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

About an hour after Hoover had been brought into surgery for his organs to be retrieved, a doctor came out and explained that Hoover “wasn’t ready”. “He woke up,” Rhorer said.

I wonder how far into the surgery they got. I'm assuming either not at all, or like only the initial cut, which may have been what gave the stimulation to knock him out of whatever coma state he was in.

If he was in the actual operating room for a full hour, that's a LONG time for nothing to have happened; but the hospitals I've worked at, there's a holding area where family is allowed to be at the patient's side, then shortly before surgery they get moved to pre-op (no family) for final prep before finally being pushed to the OR, so I suspect a lot of that hour was in pre-op.

...assuming organ harvest cases even go to pre-op - tbh I'm not sure if they do.

I've assisted in a few organ harvest cases, and the surgery itself is absolute madness - each organ system being harvested has its own team who specializes in that system, and they need to be extracted and preserved quickly to ensure they stay viable. So the second the docs get the green light to cut, it's like a pack of lions going to town on a gazelle. The time between initial cut and the donor being an empty carcass is like minutes. As soon as a team gets the organ they're after, they break scrub and leave, so the chaos transitions pretty quickly to this eerie quiet OR with a now not-just-brain-dead but dead dead patient flayed open on the table, blood all over the place since they don't really care about controlling bleeding, supplies all over the floor...

It's literally 6 high speed surgeries at the same time.

Point being - if someone woke up in the middle of that, they're already well passed the point of being completely fucked. You couldn't just call a stop and put it all back together. For real the best thing they could do in that scenario would be to push some general anesthetic to knock the patient back out, then continue the harvest (assuming general anesthetic wouldn't ruin the organs) and try to figure out what the actual fuck happened later.

NPR made it a point to say that some observers worry that the media attention Hoover’s case has drawn could undermine an organ-transplant system with a waiting list of more than 100,000 people. A professor of medical ethics with whom NPR spoke said all indications are that cases like Hoover’s are generally “one-offs that hopefully we’ll be able to get to the bottom of and prevent from ever happening again”.

That was my first thought too. This sounds like a super weird scenario, and while we should definitely dig, I'm a little uneasy about it circulating the web.

But Rhorer defended her decision to go public with Hoover’s story, saying it would be worth sharing if it could “give one other family the courage to speak up or if it could save one other life”.

...and that's the thing - that one life being 'saved' (or more likely: death delayed a bit, beyond the point of being a harvest candidate) is going to doom multiple others to death and prolonged agony. Going public was not a responsible choice. Where they should have gone was to a conference room in that hospital with a bunch docs from that hospitall and from KODA, their ethics board, and their patient advocacy staff, where they could have had every one of their concerns and grievances addressed in extreme detail, and provided to those docs extreme detail on every little gut feeling they had that was putting up red flags that something wasn't right, and possibly identify some potential system improvements - that's the data that could have saved other families from going through this again.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago

I would assume they'd sedate the person, even if brain dead, to guard against this exact scenario (which means they'd be harvesting a not-actually-braindead person, but that's a separate issue). Do they not do this? Or did they just not sedate enough or something? I don't know how sedation is measured, does being braindead make it harder to measure because some metric already looks like it does while sedated?

[-] ArmyTiger@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

No, if a patient is declared brain dead, there is usually no sedation given. It shouldn't be necessary, as the neurons responsible for sensing pain aren't alive and processing signals, and extra medication like sedation comes with the risk of hemodynamic instability, which is already kind of a headache in brain dead patients as the brain is no longer meditating that (extremely oversimplified). Yes, sedation can be measured (sorta) with a BIS probe, a spectral imaging probe on the forehead that acts like an EEG with fewer probes, but it's not very useful in brain death as it's ultimately looking at blood flow, and in brain death, we don't expect to see blood flow to the brain.

All of this, of course, assumes that he was declared brain dead, which is a very specific legal term with very specific parameters that vary slightly state by state, which seems unlikely in this situation. He may have been deemed to have a severe neurologic injury with an unlikely prognosis of meaningful recovery, and thus be a planned DCD (declared cardiac death) donation, meaning placed on a minimally assistive ventilatory support and allowed to die once his respiratory drive was so low he died of hypoxic respiratory failure. But the article is long on anecdotes and short on the technical terms physicians would use, so it's hard to say.

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this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
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