Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War (news.gallup.com)

submitted 5 days ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 11 points 5 days ago

And the rest are not draft eligible I guess..

A story from personal experience: most of my friends from Ukraine wanted the war to end from the very beginning. There was one exception though - a real patriot who considered Zelensky a hero and the best president we've ever had, "Slava Ukraini", "Russians are orcs", you know the type.
What on Earth could make such a patriot change his mind? Just like me he doesn't live in Ukraine, and about a year ago Zelensky started trying hard to forcefully return people from abroad to use as a cannon fodder (thankfully, he failed)... That made him change his opinion very fast :)

And every war supporter out there is the same.. The war is OK, as long as it's not me who is forbidden to leave the country and gets kidnapped off a street to be used as a cannon fodder.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 days ago

Funny how all the bravest Ukrainian patriots live in western countries now.

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 1 points 5 days ago

I mean, same is true for Russian patriots, no?

Russians abroad always talk about how great the motherland is, but nobody wants to move back there and not just because of the war. Or have you moved back to Russia yet?

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 days ago

Russian army has no problem recruiting volunteers to fight last I checked.

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 0 points 4 days ago

I mean if financially motivated is volunteer, then sure. They're getting paid real well lately.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago

What's stopping you from signing up for the foreign legion?

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 0 points 4 days ago

Value proposition for me isn't nearly as good considering my current income and potential foreign legion income. Would be a major loss. Putin's offer is way better if you consider the median salary in Russia and what the recruits are apparently being offered.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 days ago

Military service in Russia does pay relative to median salary, no question about that. And I imagine volunteers end up being a far more effective fighting force than conscripts gang pressed into fighting which what the vast majority of the AFU is at this point.

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 0 points 4 days ago

Yup, so while those people technically volunteer, I wouldn't be so sure that they're volunteering out of their love for the motherland.

Still, I reckon the order of motivation goes: Patriots who fight for the cause > Well-paid volunteers > Conscripts. So you've got that right. Unfortunately, I doubt Ukraine can offer any contractors nearly as much as Russia does.

I do hope there's peace soon, but that's still entirely up to Putin and literally nobody else. I'm pretty sure Ukrainians would be ready to accept a white peace immediately at this point, without even regaining Crimea or anything, but Putin needs to have territorial gains beyond that.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago

It's as much up to the west as it is up to Russia. The Ukrainians are stuck fighting a proxy war for NATO here. It's also worth noting that Russia offered negotiations right before Ukraine started their ill fated Kursk offensive. It's pretty clear that neither the Ukrainian regime nor their western sponsors want to negotiate. The real tragedy in all this is that the war could've been over two months in when the negotiations in Astana were happening, but as we now know the west sabotaged them and convinced Ukraine to fight instead.