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this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
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Taiwan is an amazing independent country with its own culture and currency.
You're almost as good a comedian as Zelensky.
two western keyboard warriors arguing over the fate of an island nation on the other side of the planet, having likely never spoken to a single inhabitant and likely never will
~~reddit~~ lemmy baby
weird way to say a province of China
Why do you assume I'm from the west? I've actually been to Taiwan and it's amazing. If you visit Taipei 101 you'll regularly see people with flags for independence. If it truly was China, they'll be jailed by now, but that doesn't happen.
LOL, your brain is so rotten with propaganda. You believe China arrests people for speaking out, then you see people speaking out and not get arrested, so your first thought is - obviously this isn't China.
Mate, China imprisons far fewer people per Capita than the USA does. China handles protests far more peacefully than the USA does. China has a much more vibrant democracy than the USA does.
Taiwan is the equivalent of "the South will rise again" Americans who wave the Confederate flag. They are Chinese people living on an island after their leaders lost their civil war and the only reason it wasn't immediately brought back into the union is because UK and USA literally sent warships to prevent it from happening. Can you imagine if the confederates retreated to Long Island and then Germany and Russia sent warships to New York harbor to stop the union from integrating Long Island back into the union?
Learn some history.
Why are you again explaining Asian politics using American history to a non American? Who's even talking about America here?
I'm aware about the civil war, and I'm aware that since then Taiwan has been able to govern itself differently. In my visit I could clearly see it myself.
None of this makes it a part of PRC. American civil war is different in the sense that the Southern dream ended and they couldn't organise themselves elsewhere.
China literally threatened Taiwan just before my visit with their vessels. Are you sure they are peaceful with protests?
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/14/g-s1-28148/china-military-exercises-taiwan
Don't you remember how several celebrities had to apologise after they supported Taiwan.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/actor-john-cena-apologizes-after-taiwan-comment-n1268526
It literally has always been part of the nation-state of China. Literally the only thing that allowed the losers of the civil war to create a separatist society is UK/USA intervention, and they intervened because they knew the Red Army would support China's independence from Western hegemony and that the KMT did and would support Western hegemony. Taiwan exists as a separate entity because the North Atlantic empire is using it as a proxy.
Do you realize how close China is to Taiwan? China doing military exercises on the mainland is within striking distance of Taiwan. It is not violent for China to exercise in its own territory. The show of force is intended for the USA, you know, that state who was literally publishing military strategy about using Taiwan to complete its Pacific Kill Chain?
Your vibes don't really matter. Nor do the vibes you get when celebrities apologized for supporting a formerly-fascist currently-vassal community that exists primarily as a means to maintain Western hegemony over the region and particularly over the people and resources of China - a nation-state that includes the island of Taiwan.
Thanks again for sharing this. I'll try to read more about this.
Of course I know how close it is, I was there. But the drills weren't casual drills obviously, they were in response to National Day celebration. It actually made us nervous about our trip.
A side note: I'm happy to learn more and understand different perspectives, however what's with ad hominem attacks of vibes, propaganda and all? You can share your thoughts without making it sound like a keyboard war.
Many of us, myself included, are a bit tired of ignorant people arguing with us as though they aren't ignorant. People who are clearly ignorant do not have a position to argue from except propaganda and vibes. And it's patently obvious who is ignorant because each person who is ignorant when they argue about a topic use the exact same talking points over and over again.
The things you said about Taiwan are things that have been said for years now. They never change. They are repeated ad nauseum. They are part of the big lie. And no matter how many times some of us study the issue and then share what we've learned, another person shows up, sometimes a whole clusterfuck of them, and just unashamedly parrots talking points they got from the same sources the last clusterfuck of people got them.
On this topic, and many others, the debate isn't about facts at all. It's about opinions, values, morality, ethics, and often violent intervention and those things are all based on false beliefs and ignorance. So when people come in saying "Taiwan deserves independence and the USA should protect them", it's not a problem of you need to learn so much as you're willing to come in here and tell people that you support violence on the basis of some narrative that you have not examined, have not spent time researching, and have not struggled through the difficulties of learning about. If you came in arguing facts, the conversation would be very different, but you, like many of us raised in liberal society, lead with vibes that we delude ourselves into thinking are facts.
It's exhausting. Apologies for being harsh with you. I highly recommend learning more.
I try to be but I can't ever compete with those who like to suck boots of bullies.
says without a hint of irony while promoting US imperialism 🤡
Keep your western politics on your side of the planet. Idk what's with you all assuming everyone is an American
You don't have to be American to be a victim of US propaganda. US media completely dominates all of the vassal states as well.
the opposite of US imperialism is not Chinese imperialism, it's zero imperialism. But idk why I'm explaining this you don't seem like the type to understand anything that isn't a Disney/Marvel flavored good guy bad guy storyline
Except China isn't doing imperialism as anybody who's not an ignoramus guzzling US propaganda would know.
If the Taiwanese people wish to be independent then they are. If they don't then they aren't. Simple as.
Literally nothing you do, say, or feel will change that, because it doesn't concern you at all. No offense but you're kinda just some powerless angry loser, which exist by the billions on this planet already
You have no idea what imperialism is. It's not vibes.
Polling in Taiwan shows that your statement is false. Simple as that.
The overwhelming majority of people in Taiwan want to maintain the status quo. The desire for Taiwanese independence has experienced a significant drop over the past three years, with only 25.3% of people who want to “move toward independence” or seeking “independence as soon as possible” - down from nearly one-third - 32.4% - in 2020.
https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/eng/PageDoc?fid=7424
What's more, that's despite US interference in Taiwan politics and media which is very well documented. US has poured countless millions into shaping the opinions of the people in Taiwan through orgs like NED, it directly grooms US politicians such as Tsai Ing-Wen. This is what's known as cultural hegemony.
Sunflower Movement Leader Lin Fei-fan’s Associations with the US NED
Democratic Progressive Party (DPP)’s regular Reporting to AIT
Lol the graph clearly shows lack in interest in unification, even "unification as soon as possible" dropped. Isn't that enough sign that Taiwanese don't want unification as of now?
The graph clearly shows that vast majority of people are against independence. I see reading comprehension is not your strong point.
If status quo means they are independent which they very much appear to me, then isn't that overwhelming majority support for letting it be the way it is, i.e. not ruled by PRC? If it is ruled by it, then why did PRC bring their vessels to threaten its own people just a month ago?
Status quo is that Taiwan is a province of China that's not independent. That's literally why the chart shows the support for becoming independent is practically non existent. If Taiwan was independent then there wouldn't be a question of it becoming independent. Hope that helps clear up basic logic for you.
Meanwhile, the real question is why the US still has presence in another country that's half way across the world from it.
If status quo means that they are a province of China that's not independent then to whom pertains the "unification"?
Surely you cannot be posting a graph that implies that there is need for a unification with a country other than our Great People's Republic of China?
They're an autonomous region. It's pretty funny when people start opining on topics they have absolutely no clue about.
The party is unaware of such claims of autonomy. Posting graphs that imply even remotely that the region of Taiwan is in any way autonomous from our country is westoid propaganda.
I posted a graph from the official Taiwanese polling, but do go off champ.
Yet again you stray from our official line and you brush it off... Mao understood very well why the soviets and Khrushchev were not friends. You cannot change your narrative and constantly backtrack when it's suits your purposes. Chinese people do not deserve to be pawns of Russia. 人民万岁
I've seen chat bots leave more coherent replies. 😂