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Biden seeks 'full accountability' after death of US citizen in West Bank
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2024
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Remember when he had those words about sanctioning high ranking members of Israel's government if the genocide continued?
...
Then he sanctioned some broke ass "settlers" for a week or two and pulled it back once everyone had clapped for him.
Human rights are only important when politically convenient.
I think this quote from Harris in the debate sums up the American support for the genocide. You can't except the former colonial genocidal regime to oppose the new one they propped up.
Edit: it seems most people think I ment this was a good thing? No, America isn't inherently good.
This statement shows how America supports the genocide because America would be willing to do similar slaughter if an attack happened to us (look at our post 9/11 actions for an example of the destruction we are willing to cause). It also shows how she not only recognizes but supports this view.
When I hear that, who is Israel defending it self from if Gaza and the West Bank are not separate nations? Are they part of Israel and Israel is defending itself against itself?
'Defend itself' makes sense in the context of Iran or Hezbollah, but the thousands of men, women, and children killed in Gaza that are not involved in the fighting aren't external threats. They are victims of apartheid.
More precisely the Palestinians are illegally occupied and occupied people have a right to defend themselves against the occupation.
She literally clarified that she was going to provide weapons for defense from Iran and its puppets, that she will fight for a 2 state solution, and called for a cease fire. Like a sentence later.
Jfc. Race to the bottom, though I don't blame you when this guy is purposely taking things out of context.
To the best of my recollection she was asked in the context of Gaza and the Oct 7th attack during the debate, not attacks from Iran. The 'Israel must defend itself' argument comes up constantly in the context of the massive death toll in Gaza.
I know the situation is complex and foreign states like Iran fund and supply Palestinian resistance, but it seems like a an easy way to deflect criticism by changing the focus from Palestinians to hostike nations like Iran.
Biden has been saying that for the duration of the war. And everyday there's a new war crime and all he does is repeat the same practiced sentences with no actions to back them up. Harris has given 0 indication that she would be any different. There comes a point where their words are meaningless on this topic and we are long past it.
Yeah, so who are "Iran and it's puppets"?
July 25, after a meeting with Netanyahu
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/07/25/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-following-meeting-with-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-of-israel/
Who is fighting to stop the Israeli genocide?...
So she clarified that she's not pro Genocide, she will just support Israels "right to defend" itself from those who actually oppose their genocide.
The rest is empty words and doublespeak. She supports Israels war against Hamas and continued funding of their genocidal apartheid state while they genocide Palestinians.
If she really wanted a ceasefire she would vow to end support if they didn't cease fire, not keep giving them whatever they want and asking nicely that they stop
My optimistic rose tinted guess here is that it's very tough to speak out after what happened last Oct. Hamas was wrong and went too far in that, unjustifiably so.
It's a bit ironic, from what I understood at the time Netanyahu was forced into a coalition and losing power. Then the Oct attack happened and suddenly a bunch of folks stepped out of Netanyahu's way and gave him full control again.
Today there are many Israelites - including family members of hostages - who think things are going too far and that Netanyahu should stop.
What happened on Oct-7?
Here's an article explaining how Oct 7 had terrible consequences for folks in the West Bank, https://apnews.com/projects/west-bank-palestinian-teenagers-israel/
What happened on oct-7?
Edit: This is genocide apologia/victim blaming.
Gaza resistance isn't to blame for Israels being a genocidal apartheid towards Gaza, and doubly so for the seperate region of the West Bank which Hamas doesn't even control.
Hmm .. so, there are a couple of quotes from figures serving in the IDF and such, which might be where you got that impression from.
Overall I didn't sense this from the article - which is trying to bring to light crimes being committed in the West Bank against Palestinians in the wake of Oct 7.
I think it's unacceptable that a kid going home from school is killed by a military sniper. It's not the kids fault and not the fault of the community he lives in.
I think it's worth drawing lines between these folks and the Hamas military/leadership, as well as the fighters from Hamas who participated in Oct 7.
To quote myself,
Blame is a complicated concept involving responsibility and so forth. And it goes without saying that Netanyahu and his allies and enablers remain fully responsible for their choices and decisions and actions. I am just saying that Netanyahu regaining full power and control and being able to do the things that are now happening in Gaza and the West Bank are a direct consequence of Oct 7 - as otherwise Netanyahu wouldn't have been able to go this far.
Sadly, it turned out this didn't matter. Once the chains folks were trying to put on Netanyahu got released in the wake of Oct 7, he and his forces came up with excuses to go dig in here as well.
Again worth quoting myself,
Just as all Gazans and West Bank folks are not part of Hamas, not all Israelites are part of the IDF or on Netanyahu's side.
I think at this point, having read the article I sent, you've gotten the answer. But it's worth restating this point - Israelites who were sympathetic to the plight of those living in the West Bank and in Gaza do exist, and even recently they tried to exert their influence to put an end to this, see for example https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israe-hamas-war-netanyahu-strike-protest-ceasefire-hostages-killed-hersh-goldberg-polin/
But from https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-parliament-approves-national-unity-government-2023-10-12/
So Oct 7 was a turning point - the folks that had the power to restrain Netanyahu gave it up after that attack and seeing their friends and family members murdered or kidnapped, and even today folks like Harris are reluctant to put the full brakes on Israel because of that attack.
The PA understood this, and hence condemned what happened, see https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-president-says-he-rejects-killing-civilians-both-sides-conflict-2023-10-12/
Today there's no elections and thus the same opportunities to rein Netanyahu in don't exist.
But if they did, Israel would do it, see https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240913-poll-finds-netanyahus-coalition-would-lose-power-in-an-election/
The overwhelming majority of Democratic voters and the majority of all Americans support a permanent ceasefire and even conditional arms sales (a plurality for a full arms embargo). Biden and Harris are jeopardizing a significant amount of votes, especially in swing states, by not pivoting on Israel/Palestine. If Harris did pivot, she would get significant gains
Polls:
New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (This is the full YouGov Report that details it's methodology)
American Attitudes: Shifting Realities After the Unfolding Genocide in Gaza
Data For Progress Poll
I would agree with that statement if over 40,000 confirmed deaths of civilians in 8 months wasn't what was happening.
Do you think America wouldn't do the same though?
Edit: I never said it was a good thing, just that she said the quiet part out loud.
Are you trying to justify America arming and funding a colonial state intent on wiping out the entire native population in addition to the routine execution and murder of international aid workers and journalists by saying "Well wouldn't America do the same thing?"
No. I'm saying that's how they justify it.
She addressed that in the next sentence
And what actions has she taken to make us believe she actually means to protect Palestinians? Don't give me quotes, give me actions.
She's the vice president. She has no control over the situation.
Really?? The Vice President of the United States, second only to the President, has no control over policies being made in the United States? She doesn't have a podium to address her citizens and her fellow politicians to speak her mind and influence public opinion? She doesn't preside over the senate to cast tie-breaking votes so that she can help sway decisions? She doesn't have the ability to make a campaign promise, as the Democratic candidate for President, to stop arming Israel while they slaughter innocents?
No, she has a lot of power to help influence decisions. She's just scared to because of that sweet sweet AIPAC money.
Not doubting you, but as I don't recall this (probably because of the exhausting news cycle) citations would help.
Anyways, I'm encouraged by the fact that other countries that are similarly allied like the UK are starting to say no. The US might not have been ready to be the first one or the only one from this group, but hopefully it will do the right thing when others like the UK set the right example...