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Lemmy World outages (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by lwadmin@lemmy.world to c/lemmyworld@lemmy.world

Hello there!

It has been a while since our last update, but it's about time to address the elephant in the room: downtimes. Lemmy.World has been having multiple downtimes a day for quite a while now. And we want to take the time to address some of the concerns and misconceptions that have been spread in chatrooms, memes and various comments in Lemmy communities.

So let's go over some of these misconceptions together.

"Lemmy.World is too big and that is bad for the fediverse".

While one thing is true, we are the biggest Lemmy instance, we are far from the biggest in the Fediverse. If you want actual numbers you can have a look here: https://fedidb.org/network

The entire Lemmy fediverse is still in its infancy and even though we don't like to compare ourselves to Reddit it gives you something comparable. The entire amount of Lemmy users on all instances combined is currently 444,876 which is still nothing compared to a medium sized subreddit. There are some points that can be made that it is better to spread the load of users and communities across other instances, but let us make it clear that this is not a technical problem.

And even in a decentralised system, there will always be bigger and smaller blocks within; such would be the nature of any platform looking to be shaped by its members. 

"Lemmy.World should close down registrations"

Lemmy.World is being linked in a number of Reddit subreddits and in Lemmy apps. Imagine if new users land here and they have no way to sign up. We have to assume that most new users have no information on how the Fediverse works and making them read a full page of what's what would scare a lot of those people off. They probably wouldn't even take the time to read why registrations would be closed, move on and not join the Fediverse at all. What we want to do, however, is inform the users before they sign up, without closing registrations. The option is already built into Lemmy but only available on Lemmy.ml - so a ticket was created with the development team to make these available to other instance Admins. Here is the post on Lemmy Github.

Which brings us to the third point:

"Lemmy.World can not handle the load, that's why the server is down all the time"

This is simply not true. There are no financial issues to upgrade the hardware, should that be required; but that is not the solution to this problem.

The problem is that for a couple of hours every day we are under a DDOS attack. It's a never-ending game of whack-a-mole where we close one attack vector and they'll start using another one. Without going too much into detail and expose too much, there are some very 'expensive' sql queries in Lemmy - actions or features that take up seconds instead of milliseconds to execute. And by by executing them by the thousand a minute you can overload the database server.

So who is attacking us? One thing that is clear is that those responsible of these attacks know the ins and outs of Lemmy. They know which database requests are the most taxing and they are always quick to find another as soon as we close one off. That's one of the only things we know for sure about our attackers. Being the biggest instance and having defederated with a couple of instances has made us a target.  

"Why do they need another sysop who works for free"

Everyone involved with LW works as a volunteer. The money that is donated goes to operational costs only - so hardware and infrastructure. And while we understand that working as a volunteer is not for everyone, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. As a volunteer you decide how much of your free time you are willing to spend on this project, a service that is also being provided for free.

We will leave this thread pinned locally for a while and we will try to reply to genuine questions or concerns as soon as we can.

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[-] Thrawne@lemmy.world 100 points 1 year ago

I couldnt care less. You provide a great forum at no charge to me. I thank yoy for your contribution to discourse, communication with the community, and look forward to the growth of lemmy.world

[-] dpkonofa@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

I’m with you. When LW is down, I just take that as a sign to go outside for a bit or do something else. The entitlement people are showing is so annoying. Lemmy is not some kind of vital infrastructure.

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[-] gndagreborn@lemmy.world 91 points 1 year ago

Thanks for being so transparent with us. Lemmy really does feel like home now to me. I wish the maintainers all the best as they continue to fight the forces of evil.

[-] ekZepp@lemmy.world 88 points 1 year ago
[-] Octavio@lemmy.world 86 points 1 year ago

Reddit was down a lot too, and they stuck ads in my face. It’s not like I have a pacemaker that needs Lenny.world to be up in order to function. Keep up the good work and I hope whoever is behind the attacks steps on a Lego.

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[-] Ton@lemmy.world 71 points 1 year ago

Great stuff, thank you for all the good work.

btw, as a tip: please resize https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/14f857e5-703a-4513-9c1a-f23031675be1.png in an image editor. It's on the homepage, and it's a frikking 4.5 megabyte image file.

[-] antik@lemmy.world 54 points 1 year ago

I resized it. It's 1,2MB now

[-] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 year ago
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[-] stealthnerd@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago

If you think it might help I've got a bit of a hack I've used in the past to cache a sql database in a compressed ramdisk using zram and bcache. Imagine stuffing a 50G DB into 20G of memory.

It won't fix the inefficient SQL queries but it would make it so frequently accessed tables get cached in a ram disk cutting query time significantly.

This might be enough to reduce the impact of these attacks until queries can be optimized.

This assumes your database isn't running on something like RDS though.

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[-] darthsid@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago

Ah so the Lemmy World server isn’t a Raspberry Pie? Nice.

[-] topinambour_rex@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

No, it is an arduino with an ethernet shield.

[-] Moc@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Decapitated ancient Lenovo laptop

[-] 3laws@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago
[-] Brisolo32@lemmy.eco.br 12 points 1 year ago

PS2 running linux

[-] Rambler@lemm.ee 42 points 1 year ago

A fantastic job is being done by you folks - obviously in the face of adversity. Given the amount of users on the instance is at a critical point, would it not be possible to 'move' accounts off it onto other less populated instances ?

Keep up the great work folks - I sympathise for ya.

[-] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

the amount of users on the instance is at a critical point

The thing is, it's not. The admins are literally saying that lemmy.world is not down because "it can't handle the load". It actually can handle the load, the hardware is pretty badass and it has the most resources out of all instances currently thanks to the donations. It's down because of one guy or group DDOSing this instance, normal user activity is not what's overloading the database.

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[-] bennysp@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago

Thank you for the update. Good work.

[-] Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago

Take your time bros I don't need this shit 24/7 the downtime is fine and expected

[-] Smoogs@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

I’m imagining spez is sending his flying monkeys and they’ve been trying to shut it all down. Doesn’t matter that you’re smaller than Reddit, Egos like spez’s can’t take even a minor rumble. Just look at how he has to ‘win’ against all his own users. Should tell you all you need to know on his motives.

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[-] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

Thank you for everything you do. You guys are doing a fantastic job, and a lot of us sincerely appreciate all your efforts!

[-] Sumeron@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the transparency and the update! Downtime to me is useful, it prevents me from using Lemmy too much.

[-] cyborganickname@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago

Thank you for your time & efforts in maintaining this platform. I (and many others I'm sure) have great respect for the work you do in trying to combat this menace. The community is completely behind you and appreciates the value of this resource.

[-] Mercury1337@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago

Thank you for your hard work

[-] merthyr1831@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

You're managing this well. Good work folks.

[-] subspaceinterferents@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

Very grateful for your focus and dedication. Bummer about the DDOS bullshit. Your efforts mean a lot to the communities.

[-] cpo@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

Well thanks for the update and your hard work. I am currently using lemm.ee as a backup account so that I can at least have my fix.

Hope the bastard(s) who are ddossing the server get some nice tropical diseases.

Lemmy.world also was my first step into the fediverse.

[-] tallwookie@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

appreciate the transparency!

[-] md5crypto@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Endless DDOS attacks. Sigh.

[-] cyberpunk007@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

When will /u/spez just accept that he lost?

[-] Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Nah imagine it's spez personally attacking us 💀

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[-] kadu@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

What I find most ridiculous about people claiming lemmy.world is too big and therefore bad for the Fediverse is simply... Have you people wondered why it got so big?

During the crucial first weeks of the Reddit migration, the single time period with the most chance of bringing new users, pretty much all larger Lemmy instances closed their registrations - they couldn't handle the influx. Other big ones decided to immediately defederate everybody, they were afraid of having to moderate content. And a few did remain open and federated, but they were also extremely niche and focused on their own political side of the spectrum.

Lemmy.world however remained open, remained with active admins that helped the first moderators, and kept upgrading the server at a very fast rate - you might forget it now, but Lemmy was massively slow and frustrating and then a new Lemmy.world update would drop and it would feel like a different website.

So yeah, "bad for the Fediverse" for being the only instance that kept up with the demand at the most necessary time.

Thanks Lemmy.world team.

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[-] joklhops@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

keep fighting the good fight <3

[-] desmosthenes@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

keep up the good work team; you're the linchpin to this renaissance

[-] sverit@feddit.de 16 points 1 year ago

Are DDoS protection services like those from Akamai, Arbor Networks, Link22 etc an option? Those are tested as ok by the German Federal Office for Information Security.

[-] ComplacentGoat@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

I don't believe it would work for this case. Typical DDoS is just sending a ton of junk packets at a server at the max bandwidth of the network of bots an attacker has at their disposal. Very easy to block for a large cloud provider with multi-terabit connections and multiple redundant data centers. This is different, they're asking the server to send them large amounts of information on repeat, or process massive amounts of data. The attacker is targeting the servers hardware itself through legitimate processes, so a third party wouldn't really be able to do much.

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[-] erza@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

keep up the good work

[-] Lugh@futurology.today 12 points 1 year ago

I wonder what motivated any DOS attacks.

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[-] Piers@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

The conversation gets a bit scrambled/broken up by disruptive/toxic people but this is a comment chain on lemmy.ml two weeks ago about SQL issues and challenges in getting the Lemmy Dev team to address them that might be worth reading:

https://lemmy.ml/comment/2100093

[-] jarfil@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

The Lemmy Dev team have long ago stated they're no experts in PostgreSQL tuning, and that any help is welcome.

In the thread you linked, a guy is just accusing them of what they themselves admitted, then refusing to help. Meanwhile, others have been submitting SQL related PRs all the time, which have been merged.

[-] computabloke@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

This has been pinned a few days now. Site health was pretty dire with several long outages.

But subjectively in the last 48 hours things seem to be great. Noticeably responsive and login and activities haven't missed a beat.

StatusPage.io still looks very red though... Is the worst now mitigated?

Thanks to the stirling admins (and friends) for their work on this. Vive la Lemmy.World!

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[-] Imkeen@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

Appreciate it

[-] enshu@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Thank you for all the works you do!

[-] Jodio_Joestar@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

All support to Y'all, Keep Going!

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this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
1737 points (97.0% liked)

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