Remember how, before the internet, intelligence agencies by default didn't know what anyone was saying to anyone else face to face or by mail, and had to actually work to find out? The country didn't fall apart. Why is the standard now that everything must be handed to them on a plate? Did they just get lazy?
You'll love this!
I deployed an open-source chat system at work, just for convenience. Boss was concerned that it didn't do any logging and we couldn't tell who said what.
"You don't have any records of what we say verbally. What's the difference?"
"...Oh. Well, you're right."
He was coming from a legit concern. We didn't point fingers when someone screwed up, zero blame, but we needed to know exactly what happened so we could fix it.
I'm not disagreeing with you but what would happen back then is that they simply wouldn't stop the crime.
At some point we need to decide if giving up all semblance of personal privacy is worth stopping some of that. I vote no enthusiastically. We just have to accept that some of that crime won't be stopped and law enforcement will have to work harder.
If our countries could stop doing things that give people a reason to commit terroristic acts, Maybe that would solve some of it and we could be more secure in our papers and possessions without unlawful interference and undue search and seizures but that’s apparently none of my business
This isn't a new concept by any means. The argument of crime prevention has been used since governments existed to strip rights
That they can is what has changed. They didn't have sufficient information to put pressure.
They still had microphones and inquiry drugs, including those causing memory loss. So they knew plenty of what people were saying to each other.
Anyway. Everything has changed a lot, not just technology, and one can't really make a chain of causation to all this. There are plenty of feedback loops.
The rules now are "we are stronger, so we are forbidding everything we don't want". Losing leverage does that.
Until you learn of some way to hit them back, such questions are no good, because not answering them doesn't cost anything.
I think its a mixture of lazy and inexperience.
I believe if someone in a position of authority who understands how vital E2EE is in order for the internet to work, this suggestion wouldn't even be on the table.
its a case of just kicking destroying E2EE down the road for another generation to deal with, I believe. not sure what the solution is, either
They cut costs by firing the people doing the legwork and passed the savings along to billionaires who promised sustainable models. Now they can't hire people to do real legwork anymore because, "no one wants to work anymore for their grandparents' wage in an economy and society designed to turn people into voluntary slaves and the only way to escape is to become homeless and go off the grid, but the laws are being molded to prevent anyone from escaping the system."
I'm pretty sure that's how the old adage goes.
Absolutely insanity.
Truly. This global push towards mass surveillance is extremely alarming.
Pervasive surveillance is a hostile act. Abetting genocide and other crimes against humanity is a hostile act. Serving the rich at the expense of the poor is a hostile act.
It's a kingdom. They have a certain old dicksucker as a king. And they, importantly, don't have any historical or current reservations about things you listed, fortified by documents.
Boys... When it's considered a hostle act to demand rights, ownership, and privacy... We have a problem.
If you don’t want your citizens to be hostile, don’t make yourself an enemy.
Wow, the UK sounds like an awful place.
I thought we were unique in this but frankly everywhere in the "western" world is talking about the same things. EU has chat control, Australia has similar efforts, USA aren't pushing for privacy at all so it's not a uniquely British problem.
Agreed, but Australia and the UK are way ahead of the rest.
Ah its not so bad if you get so drunk your critical thinking skills go out the window.
Hey, did you use a secure encrypted connection to make that treasonous remark? I've got 999 on speed dial, I'm on to you, you encryption terrorist!
What the fuck happened to the UK? Is Trump president there too?
The right wing fascism wave is a world trend my guy. This is just the start.
Meta happened. UK, US, all over the world there is a correlation between the adoption of Meta's products and the corrosion of basic human rights.
What the heck is happening with Europe in general? I thought they were better in terms of maintaining individual privacy, damm.
That's europe, this is just UK. Brexit didn't work out in a lot of ways they planned
I'd argue it worked exactly as intended.
Well many governments see their citizens as hostile actors, so its not really a change, is it?
Said proudly by the hostile actors.
Let's be hostile together then
I'm baffled that all this tracking nonsense is pushed through by a government that is supposed to be left of the tories. I guess that goes to show you that "center" parties can be just as evil as conservatives.
They aren't left. Starmer and chums undermined the left-wing leader of Labour. They're the pro-business wing of the party. New Labour folks were always dreadful for this sort of thing. Many authoritarian changes are coming from the centre, in UK, France, Denmark etc.
It all feels co-ordinated as states and their representatives squeeze down on working people.
I know they aren't left, that's why I wrote "left of the tories". They are centrist and how Starmer ever managed to become prime minister is beyond me. That guy as a suit through and through.
PGP has been around since the 90's can you PLEASE shut the fuck up.
Like please.
These guys are so fucking stupid. Security and privacy goes both ways. Either for people to use or not. If you don't want encryption, fine, your online banking doesn't work anymore
Doesn't even RCS and iMessages use E2EE?
I think most messaging apps these days have it. Allegedly even Discord (calls only, not text chat) has it.
I think part of this is lawmakers not understanding the gravity of what they’re suggesting. Besides, most of these apps have some sort of backdoor built-in so they can decrypt messages if required in legal proceedings. Ripping E2EE out of everything is an insane assertion to make, and would make the Internet an even more dangerous place than it already is.
Folks, "1984" was supposed to be a warning. Not an instruction manual, with check off items.
Welcome to New East Germany.
Off topic but does the UK still have the death penalty for treason? Just wondering.
Don’t y’all vote over there? Government isn’t us vs them. Government is us. Period.
Gosh, and these powers could be handed to Farage.
They could be complicit in what comes next.
Stamer is running a social experiment, see how many people worldwide can hate him in the least amount of time possible. Everything he and his goons do is double down constantly on shit nobody wants.
Starmer is a fucking terrible PM and we knew he would be from the start because the establishment wheeled him out to get rid of the Jeremy Corbyn problem.
Starmer sold his soul long ago, his big "human rights lawyer" past counts for jack shit - it's history. He's so unlikeable, stands for nothing, has no moral clarity, and has absolutely zero charisma. He's liked and respected less than a dull secondary school headteacher. Even people who agree with his policies die of boredom and cringe when he's speaking.
He's alienated so many former supporters, and meanwhile despite adopting right-wing talking points and policies, he is absolutely loathed by the people who will vote for Fartrage and ReBørk. They think he's woke, when actually he's just useless.
Starmer has painted himself into a corner like a twat, and now has nowhere else to go. Labour could have seen it coming if they cared, but they didn't care because Corbyn posed a bigger threat with some actual socialist policies that were gaining popularity the more people heard about them. We couldn't have that, could we!
Labour smears Corbyn with bullshit antisemitism accusations, while continuing to arm Netanyahu and profiting from the genocide. A Palestinian genocide we're not allowed to express support for a certain genocide-opposing nonviolent direct Action movement, without getting arrested?
Now there's nonviolent political prisoners, held on remand with no trials yet, some seriously ill on hunger strike. All because Labour have no principles.
The whole lot is laid bare here in fascist Britannia. The Labour party is bought and paid for by the arms industry and the Israel lobby. Starmer is a loathed lame-duck PM and should go ASAP to limit the damage, but he won't. He's a hanger-on, an egotist with a messiah complex, much like Blair was. It's already too late and in any case there's nobody good to replace him, or anywhere to advance current Labour policies that doesn't just play more into the narratives of the far right. The more Starmer plays on their terms, the more he and Labour lose. He's lost authority and has no control of the narrative.
The Tories are in disarray too and are trying to play the "brown people who are clamping down on immigration" fool move, also directly playing on the far right's terms and losing. Bad-enoch is also utterly uncharismatic, but in far more of a problem for potential Tory voters, she's black and a woman! A tokenistic bit of lip-service to trying to be a modern political party - it won't wash with Tory voters, they will smile and secretly vote to stab Bad-enoch in the back when she's no longer useful to them.
If bloody Fartrage gets in though, it's firmly at the feet of Starmer, who couldn't be harder to vote for if he tried.
Because he's so crap, and implementing fascist policies, he will be directly responsible for ushering in ReBørk votes, since he hasn't really made the case for anything different.
What a fucking waste of space and very real fascist threat Starmer is!
And tk think that you've barely scratched the surface of the actual shitshow that fucker is. I'm not British, but have plenty of very good British friends, and in my over half a century of age, I never though 1 fucker could destroy British culture and way of life the way this asshole has singlehandedly done, and somehow figuring out how to make it worse every day. I feel for the British people.
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