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submitted 1 day ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca
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[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 35 points 1 day ago

I guarantee you this is some kind of Russian-backed bullshit.

I have absolutely no evidence or even any indication. But it is exactly the type of suggestion that makes 0% sense for someone to come up with on their own as a good idea, and 100% sense in terms of the way Russia likes to think about what they would like to see people talking about in countries they don't like. I doubt anyone is even looking at it as some kind of thing that even might happen, it's just some handy hostile bullshit to throw into the equation to keep everyone busy chasing their tails and arguing and frustrated instead of accomplishing anything running the country.

This has been Philip's Conspiracy Corner, tune in next week

[-] Peanutbjelly@sopuli.xyz 5 points 17 hours ago

People underestimate how much Russian propaganda they eat up. Russia has had great success with their damned propaganda. They are great at getting people to be divisive and fight each other. We need solidarity, not self segregation.

[-] LostWon@lemmy.ca 4 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Actually, from recent reports I've seen, it seems it's Smith trying to save her own butt because much of her party wants this and is at risk of splitting up if they don't get their way.

She's said a referendum would be an "outlet" to let them feel heard, but she's obviously playing with fire. (Fwiw, Smith says she isn't for secession herself, but take that as you will.) If she was responsible and cared at all about her province and country, she'd be trying to put that fire out (aiming for a unity moment), rather than fanning the flames.

[-] tleb@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago

Russia is for sure sowing seeds of doubt across all sorts of movements to politically disrupt us, but the whole reason separation is being taken at all seriously rests entirely on Danielle Smith. She thinks that legitimizing their concerns means that the UCP will stay together because the entire party is built on the idea of sharing a tent with fringe crazies. She's also encouraging all the talk about it because it is distracting from the government's ongoing scandals.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 9 points 1 day ago

Danielle Smith

Hm

After she became premier, it was revealed that she made comments on April 29 during a Locals.com livestream about Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Smith argued for a peace plan between Russia and Ukraine and advocated for Ukraine's neutrality. She also made subsequently deleted posts in March that questioned whether breakaway regions in Ukraine should be able to govern independently, and whether NATO played a role in the invasion, citing a conspiracy theory promoted by Tucker Carlson alleging 'secret U.S. funded biolabs' in Ukraine.[118]

Theeeere it is.

Honestly? I knew I would find something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danielle_Smith#Controversies

[-] tleb@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

I'd still lean more towards her being a useful idiot, because as mentioned she necessarily courts all these conspiracy theories to keep the UCP together. But yeah, whether via Russian influence or her own stupidity, she is hugely responsible for this.

[-] saltesc@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It happens to states that feel they are the ones providing a nation all the wealth but get an unbalanced return of benefits from the nation. So someone gets the idea that the state would thrive, economically, if they were able to spend their earnings on themselves, as though the nation is holding them back.

Applying common logic, though, most people don't acknowledge any of the pros for all of the cons. But there are some—imagine a nationalist mindset for their state/ region if you will—that think it's the right thing to do because the current setup is "unfair".

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 4 points 1 day ago

It happens to states that feel they are the ones providing a nation all the wealth but get an unbalanced return of benefits from the nation

Yeah, especially if someone who wants to weaken the nation is providing tons of funding to make people feel that way, and specifically paying off politicians to give it a voice and make it sound reasonable.

Like I said, I had no idea about this person or any of this, it was just my shoot-from-the-hip reaction to such a nonsensical idea and where it might have come from. And, of course, I learn that the kooky lady who's been a standard bearer for it super coincidentally has some other random kooky ideas about the war in Ukraine that she wants to be vocal about. What a shocker, how could this have happened, why could such a combination exist and how could I have predicted it.

[-] saltesc@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yeah, you could be right. My point is this scenario is historically common around the world, without external influence. It's almost always states/regions with lots of rich natural resources. There are some exceptions like Singapore, but the Alberta situation can be compared to groups like from within Texas or Western Australia. Lots of oil, minerals, etc. and wanting to seceed to benefit from it, rather than contribute to the State.

It's also common for those kooky people to be pro-mining or drilling and these people often have kooky ideas regarding political conflicts, the environment, and social welfare if there's a pathway to economically benefit from it.

Of course, it would be a geopolitical disaster for both the seceedee and their current nation, so no one ever listens. It's the premise behind "divide and conquer" afterall—regardless of whether internally voluntary or externally manipulated—so it won't work out well.

[-] BinzyBoi@lemmy.ca -4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Russia this, Russia that, it always magically comes down to Russia.

People have been talking about this here for years now? Why is it just now when this stuff hits the national news that people suddenly start shouting "RUSSIA!" like people would yell "WITCH" in the dark ages?

This isn't a brand new thing that's come from nowhere. It's literally been in discussion for decades. William Aberhart was premier way back in the 30's with the Social Credit Party and people wanted to separate from Canada since he wanted to roll out what was basically a UBI program to assist people during the Depression, only to have the Mackenzie King Liberals state they'd refuse to give unemployment assistance to non-Liberal provincial governments in response, causing people to call for it.

Since then there's been plenty of people calling for this, mainly starting from the 70s with Pierre Trudeau. There was the Western Canada Concept (WCC), West-Fed, the Alberta Party was pro-separatist for decades, the Separation Party, Alberta First, the Freedom Conservative Party, Wexit Alberta, there's the Wildrose Independence Party which formed from the previous two merging, hell, even the Alberta Republicans have been around now for what, three years?

Even federally there was a big Wexit movement the last election or two before this one. Before that this went back to the Reform Party days when a notable amount of separatist-minded folk voted for Manning's party.

Edit: Crazy stuff getting downvoted on my comments for basing what I say on facts at hand, the original comment literally admits they have "no evidence or indication", and yet y'all still flock to the idea. That's just sad.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 8 points 1 day ago

Yeah, California and Texas have been talking about seceding for decades too. I'm not saying Danielle Smith invented it. I'm saying that it clearly sounds like some let's-fuck-up-Canada's-politics bullshit, and oh look! Down below in the comments you can find that she's super convinced that NATO started the Ukraine war, they had secret biolabs, the separatist regions should govern independently, and Ukraine should be "neutral" (which I am guessing means they are forbidden to get help defending themselves when someone starts blowing up their apartment buildings, power stations, and citizens.)

That's new. The coincidental overlap between the people who say weird bullshit which inflames internal tensions (or tries to), and the people who really suddenly feel strongly about all these foreign policies that are coincidentally overlapping the exact precise shape of what geopolitical enemies of the US/Canada would like to see, is very much new. No one who was talking about California secession also felt like Osama Bin Laden was provoked and we needed to let the trade center decide on its own whether it wanted to fall down and not interfere.

[-] BinzyBoi@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Look, I really don't want to come off the wrong way here and look like a jerk, but just with how people always seem to be so quick to associate things with Russian interference, in my mind it just feels like a repainted version of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories where "the Jews" are pulling the strings on everything. Like it feels like the more we immediately jump on the idea of Russian interference being involved, the less it feels like we separate Russians from the Russian government.

Like this isn't to say "Russia good" or that Russia's government isn't doing disinformation campaigns, but the connection of Smith's thoughts on Ukraine being tied to Alberta's separatist movement is iffy at best. She's stated she feels backed into a corner of needing to make this move, and while it seems stupid at first, it actually checks out with the landscape of Alberta politics.

I made a comment on another post few days ago outlining things here. It just seems weird that Russia would target Smith and Albertans specifically? It's more likely the case that her thoughts on Ukraine are completely separate from the separatism stuff and just a result of her consumption of American conservative media outlets more likely to have disinformation campaigns on like the Daily Wire and FOX News, which she seems to enjoy based on her meeting Carlson and Shapiro.

this post was submitted on 11 May 2025
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