Hey it's me a tool and die maker.
I can say at least that my company and the larger manufacturers in my town are spending enormous sums of cash getting students in to the trades. It's not just tool and die that's suffering, most of the "skilled" trades are bordering on geriatric.
A lot of the kids entering the trades are farm kids, which is another problem entirely. The average age of farmers in the US is close to retirement too.
I feel like to get a lot of young people into it, it doesn't just need pay, but also some of the comforts of other jobs. As in: if I can work from home vs going into a workshop from 9-5 5 days a week, even if I'd be paid more I'd prefer to work from home. Other jobs can offer perks like that, but for a lot of manufacturing jobs that's clearly not an option- so many reduced working hours/days would work. But I think when there's already a shortage on employees, companies don't want to also cut down on the hours they're working.
That's kind of a pipe dream.
The reality of manufacturing is that unless people are physically in the building, the business isn't making money. Tool and die is largely a support role. We're not just making the tooling, we're making sure the press is still running all day.
That means that if the machine is running, we have to be here. The machine has to run frequently to make sense. They're simply aren't enough people for a 4 shift rotation, which is what we'd need to have reduced hours. We struggle to fill 2. Right now we're running 3 maintenance shifts and 2 production, and that's more than most manufacturers near me can handle. The labor just isn't there. We've tried 4x10 shifts and that's difficult to sell to 2nd and 3rd shifters. About half of first shift couldn't make it work. But it didn't really matter, ultimately.
The reality is that most of the building is working 5 ten hour shifts and a 6 hour Saturday for the foreseeable future. Could we attract young people with fewer hours? Maybe. It's manufacturing and it's a hard sell regardless. I love my job, I work with a lot of people who love their jobs, and that includes guys on the floor who do little more than plug parts in to machines. It can be immensely satisfying work, but it's hard, dirty, and loud. Ask 50 teenagers if they'd rather stand next to a punch press every day or throw burgers out of windows through college, 49 are gonna throw burgers.
Sounds like people need to take an interest and the only way to do that is make them happy or make them money. Paying more will put bodies at stations and make them want to be on-site for as long as they get paid. The rest is people management.
I haven't forgotten Destin trying to push his creationist agenda using his YouTube platform. He makes a lot of good content, but after that I don't want to watch his stuff anymore. Fuck him for doing something like that.
He is also a staunch Republican, and a Trump supporter. I like some of his videos, but most of them are cringe if you're actually knowledgeable about the topic he is covering. He researches a topic just enough to come across as the smartest person in the room, while dumbing down concepts and talking down to the audience like we're infants. You can tell his target audience are poorly educated and easily impressed people from rural America.
I pretty strongly disagree with that characterization, at least for the manufacturing videos I watched, that I do have experience in. I appreciate how deferential and humble he is to people in his videos even if they're showing a job that is relatively unremarkable to most people.
I also think
poorly educated and easily impressed people from rural America.
is a pretty mean spirited and stereotype-based thing to say.
Really ? he is a Trump supporter ? I know him only from his videos, but that seems out of character for someone versed in the sciences and reasoning. Can you provide a source ? I don't want to support him with views anymore if that's true
This. I'd be super surprised because he's an intellectual who likes to understand the hows and whys of things. I really enjoy his content (especially his helicopter series). If he's maga then I'll definitely not watch another.
In the video where he's shooting antique guns (or something) with his son, his son always calls him "sir". Is that a regional thing? It seemed super weird to me.
I noticed the same thing, and you could see it a bit in this (OP) video too.
I think this one is partly regional and partly traditional.
Destin probably always called his father sir, and he probably has the same expectation of his children.
I've been following him for years and I don't really remember him pushing any narrative except the bible verse references at the end, can you be more specific?
It's obvious he's religious but he's a great educator and host so unless it's affecting his videos, I don't care what he does with his free time.
When did he do that?
And, if someone has a sincerely held moral belief and they honestly believe other people's lives would be made better if they heard it, then how is is not morally good from their perspective?
He can believe what he wants in his personal time. He can even use his platform to spread his beliefs. However being all about science and then pushing some weird agenda is a whole other thing. He betrayed the trust, so I choose not to watch his stuff anymore.
It was this video: https://youtu.be/VPSm9gJkPxU
When this video went up it caused quite a fuss online as Destin seems to heavily push an old debunked intelligent design narrative around flagella.
He literally says that there's a lot of good research being done trying to find the evolutionary mechanism. Nowhere that I saw at least did he push creationism, other than mentioning that the concept exists, and that he believes in god.
Well, I don't think it's worth repeating the debate again. You can go back and look at what was posted back when it came out.
But he tells a very one sided story and keeps telling to keep an open mind. He presents this thing as if it's totally unique and amazing, where there are very similar structures in nature out there. He also heavily focuses on the idea of it being a motor in the way that a human designed motor works, giving the same names to parts which are kind of similar on a surface level but really aren't. He also repeats all of the bible thumper talking points around this subject, as if it's a mystery nobody can explain and couldn't have come to be without some kind of intelligent design at the helm. But the reality is, this is not representing the reality at all. This whole flagella thing was an exercise of goal post moving in the first place. The ID people kept pointing out weird things and missing links. Then when science explained exactly how that thing came to be, without ID involved, they just pointed to the next thing at one point ending up at flagella.
There is a whole Wikipedia page talking about how flagella evolved and how it came to be. The intelligent design people have been shouting about this for 3 decades now and there is so much info out there to find about how this came to be. If Destin wanted to approach this from a scientific standpoint, he would focus on that information, instead of presenting it like some kind of mystery we are still figuring it out today. And not keep telling people to have an open mind and how he can't figure it out. He could have even gone into why people might think it was ID and then explain the science why it is not. Something other online science communicators often do, give people the points they have been hearing from the "wrong" side and then go into those points and explain them.
Basically the whole subject itself is very hard to present without going into the whole ID versus evolution standpoint and the way he represented it was straight out of the ID playbook. And keep in mind all of this was thoroughly debunked back 20 years ago. Him bringing this up now is inexcusable.
I'm not even sure there is research still being done on this, the research was done decades before, there is no mystery.
He also repeats all of the bible thumper talking points around this subject, as if it’s a mystery nobody can explain and couldn’t have come to be without some kind of intelligent design at the helm.
He literally does not say that though, he says there's a lot of research into it and encourages people to read it.
This whole flagella thing was an exercise of goal post moving in the first place. The ID people kept pointing out weird things and missing links. Then when science explained exactly how that thing came to be, without ID involved, they just pointed to the next thing at one point ending up at flagella.
Yeah I agree, but I also think that you can't exactly blame someone else who was uninvolved with the initial argument for arguing a different thing at a different time. If one person criticizes a politician for not providing enough social services and another separate person complains about taxes that's not moving goal posts, those are just two different people.
There is a whole Wikipedia page talking about how flagella evolved and how it came to be.
Yes, but, did you read it? Its not exactly too resoundingly confident in any one theory.
And keep in mind all of this was thoroughly debunked back 20 years ago.
All of what? It is true that the flagella isn't unique if that's what you mean.
I’m not even sure there is research still being done on this, the research was done decades before, there is no mystery.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/mmi.14658
Here's a relatively recent study that says basically what the wikipedia says:
Homing in on the T3SS, the exact evolutionary relation between injectisomes and flagella1 is debated. Phylogenetic analyses and functional arguments led to two models: (a) The evolution of modern flagella and injectisomes from a common ancestral protein export machinery (Gophna et al., 2003; Pallen and Gophna, 2007), or (b) The evolution of injectisomes from a flagellum-like ancestor (Abby and Rocha, 2012; Denise et al., 2020; Nguyen et al., 2000).
But it also says:
The T3SS is one of the most complex bacterial molecular machines, incorporating one to over a hundred copies of more than 15 different proteins into a multi-MDa transmembrane complex (Table 1). The system, especially the flagellum, has, therefore often been quoted as an example for “irreducible complexity,” based on the argument that the evolution of such a complex system with no beneficial intermediates would be exceedingly unlikely. However, it is now clear that, far from having evolved as independent entities, many secretion systems share components between each other and with other cellular machineries (Egelman, 2010; Pallen and Gophna, 2007).
I ofc am just a layman reading this, I agree it seems better understood that how I interpreted what he was saying, but it also doesn't seem nearly as well understood as you're saying.
I'm not going to debate Intelligent Design in 2025, that's just dumb.
The whole thing boils down to: Just because we don't fully understand it, doesn't mean it's proof of god.
You're thinking I'm saying something I'm not. And I think that was the case with your interpretation of the video too.
Nothing I've said here (or ever said in my life) is pro-intelligent design
Thanks for sharing. He does sound like a devout Christian who does believe in a creator, but because of science is questioning his beliefs. It would've been nice for him to keep that opinion out of the video and just stick to the point: this thing is awesome.
As an atheist agnostic myself, I don't think anybody can claim to know that there was a creator or not. However, there is much more evidence for the lack of one than for it. Who knows, we might be wrong and we're just in some intricate simulation created by sentient beings, but that then forces the question if those sentient beings are in a simulation themselves and how far up does it go? The other option is that nothing was created and it just came to be.
Both options still raise the question of how either (creators or existence) came to be. To me, they might be unknowable.
What I do like about his presentation of the options is that he says wherever your flag is, learn more and always question your position. IMO that's actually sound advice. Nothing is for certain. Neither scientists nor believers can claim to know anything for certain. The difference between science and religion is that science is a process of learning with need to discard incorrect knowledge, while religion is the claim to know everything claiming there is no need to disregard facts as it is impossible for them to be wrong. Scientists can easily fall into the latter trap too.
Believe can cross into delusion and become harmfull. I believe (hihi) creationism is part of the latter, as it also implies a hierarchy inbetween people and between people and other life.
Additionally, all evidence points away from intelligent design. For this youtube channel in particular, it's sad to see examples of belief over evidence.
Fundamentally isn't any religious belief in an omnipotent/world creating god creationist? I think the evidence trying to "prove" intelligent design is pretty weak, but the thing about essentially all religious belief is that its not exactly falsifiable. The argument can basically be as simple as "yes that evolved but god created everything in the world so it would evolve that way" or "no it didn't evolve, god created the world 5000 years ago, he just also made stuff that to any observer would appear older. he did that to intentionally obfuscate the truth so you must have faith"
Fundamentally isn't any religious belief in an omnipotent/world creating god creationist?
Oh yeah. This isn't a problem unique to Christianity.
but the thing about essentially all religious belief is that its not exactly falsifiable
I think the function of a belief system is to lessen fear in scary, doubtfull, uncertain, painfull situations. That's when an unfalsifiable happy ending brings comfort.
It's just that many of them were invented quite a while ago, and some things that used to be unknown and scary then, are now better understood or obsolete. No point in engaging in makebelief for those.
Yeah, but it seems like for a lot of people they either have to believe all of it or none of it
I notice the same. A sad observation in my opinion.
how is is not morally good from their perspective?
It is, but thier perspective is immoral.
Yeah that's a fair perspective I have. I just don't like when people aren't honest about their problem with it because they want to act like they're okay with religion.
I think religion is ok, as long as it isn't evangelical or spreading anti-intellectualism.
People on Lemmy sure are just pissed off all the time huh? This is an interesting project at the very least and highlights just how difficult it is to truly make something in America, and does a decent job of explaining why it's bad that it's that difficult. Y'all need to just chill.
Constant purity testing, and invalidating everything someone says because you disagree on a couple issues 💀
His point about investing in the pricier, good quality product instead of periodically paying for the cheaper, bad quality product, only makes sense if you have a guarantee the pricier product actually have a good quality. And that's not the only thing that matters. Companies like Malus claim to have better quality and we can debate that all day, but what's undeniable is their anti-repair stance. That means you can have a problem with their product and have to buy a new one anyway because it can't be repaired.
Yep I agree. I don't think he was saying that being pricier guarantees its better quality, just that something better quality may be worth it even if it is pricier.
I would consider repair and upgrade-ability to be a part of quality.
Climate Town made a similar episode for their tshirt as well, which he struggle to find a tshirt maker that is fully locally made to reduce the climate impact.
Watched the video yesterday. I think it does a good job at describing the reality, and it's consequences.
The causes and solutions are left as an exercise for the reader
Yeah, I was involved in injection moulding profesionally - on a customer side, just like Destin. Situation in Europe is very similar. While you can produce competitevly in Europe, to produce a mould most people go to China. Cheaper, faster, and just as good quality.
There are six components to this grill scrubber and at least two are from foreign source. The chain mail is from China and the top knob is from Costa Rica. He also said the handle string is of unknown source. I'm bit disappointed that he just slapped a Made in USA label on it and called it good. For 75 dollars I expect a bit better.
I wish Destine broke down the cost of every component of the scrubber and how he ended up with the $75 price tag at the end. He did that with the chain mail but didn't discuss the cost associated with any other part of the process. That leads me to believe this video was more leaning towards making money rather actually trying to get to the bottom of problem with manufacturing a product in the US. Sadly I'm left disappointed.
I think thats a kinda dumb purity test when they clearly did put a lot of effort into actually trying, and I don't see why its better if they threw away the supply they already mistakenly bought.
No I'm not suggesting that he throw away perfectly good materials. I disagree that he put a lot of effort into really trying. There was little to no follow up after discovering the parts weren't from US. There was no attempt to contact the American chain mail supplier about limited capacity. Why is it that they can only supply so little amount? What would it take to increase capacity? Is it lack of people, machinery or investment? We don't know because it wasn't in the video. Same thing with the knobs that came from Costa Rica. There was no follow up. He didn't even try to source knobs made locally. He just said he will later. He started out the video sounding like he was determined to figure out a way to complete the task of trying to make a product made locally but he kinda just gave up and decided to just ship the product as is. The video was suppose to be an education focused but it slowly turned into a marketing video. I find that disappointing.
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