I just knew the comments were going to be us tearing each other apart.

I'm just thinking out loud here. What if Progressives that are registered as Democrats changed their registration to independent? Also, stop sending them your money. We could organize it to happen over one week. Then keep it that way for 30 days. See how much power we truly have. If we can show the Democratic party that they would never win another election without us, maybe they would be more likely to listen.

We have to be careful though, I know this President is running roughshod over the Constitution with the blessing of SCOTUS and Congress but they don't have enough votes or State legislatures to amend the Constitution. If they get that, then that truly is the end of this experiment.

Trying to reach the "I don't do politics" crowd with "harm reduction" doesn't really work as a strategy.

Like, they're already admitting that when something is an unappealing and controversial, they'd rather check out than engage. Going on to explain the gritty strategy for approaching unappealing and controversial politics is just adding more reasons onto the "I don't do politics" pile.

It's a crass comparison, but it would be like if someone said "I don't play MOBAs" and the response was to immediately launch into an explanation of League's current meta-strategy. Don't be surprised when they immediately check out of the conversation. (Yes I know games are frivolous and politics is life and death -- but the people who "don't do politics" don't see it that way)

More than that, nearly all of the "I don't do politics" people are almost certainly never going to see this image. We're in an online forum dedicated to talking about politics. The only people who see this are the people who already choose to spend their personal time on the subject. So ask yourself, is this image really about the people who are checked out of politics? Because, practically (regardless of intent) all this really seems to be is a thought-terminating cliche to throw at anyone who points out that running a "We're the lesser evil candidate!" doesn't actually engage or activate anyone who's already checked out!

Its more like 9 people on a bus, 3 vote to drive off a cliff, 2 vote for a break to get ice ream and then continue driving towards the edge of the cliff after, 2 scream why the fuck are we continuing to drive towards the edge of the cliff, the other two believe things will just be the same regardless if they vote or not. Meanwhile the people who want other people to vote for a pitstop on the way to impending doom and death are complaining that the people with the most realistic assessment of the situation are being unreasonable, unrealistic and and/ or unwilling to compromise and if we are going to die anyway we might as well have some icecream (delay the inevitable and hope we can fix things before we get to the edge of the cliff but at this rate it looks like it’ll only get worse because one side turns the mechanism as far as they can get away with and the other ratchets back into a convenient position for the other side to turn the mechanism to their advantage again) this is the more accurate assessment and it’s because education standards were destroyed and the ego’s of people who are too gullible for their own good and don't understand the scope of the corporate apparatus/ system where the ultra rich all collude and work together because they have like interests and the people who don't want to understand this, or can’t because they are naive just keep telling us we need to continue to participate in a system that disenfranchises us not because its been temporarily broken and needs fixing through participation but instead because the entire purpose of the system is to disenfranchise us and the only solution is to implement democratic representation that addresses the economic issues being manipulated without our input or consent. Any system of democratic representation that aims to exclude economically democratic governance is nothing but a class dictatorship.

I love how everyone in this thread agreed to move forward and support the Dems

Replace ice cream with cocaine and that's more realistic

Do you think people who are too stupid to vote for their own and their fellow citizens’ best interests are going to understand it in analogy form? Just try a straight forward “Hey, when you use a stapler on your own forehead, it actually hurts you, believe it or not, you fucking moron.”

Fully agree with Nina Turner. If you don't wanna do politics, you blindly leave major decisions over your life to others, who - as we can see world-wide - don't necessarily have your interest at heart. Democracy, human rights, freedom or any other such ideas require a populace to vigilantly fight for them and not let those with opposed agendas undermine them.

But that analogy afterwards is simply dishonest on many levels.

Firstly, if you are talking about "harm reduction" or the "lesser of two evils", ice cream is hardly a fair representation of the lesser evil.

Secondly this mixes in non-political people, who do not participate in the democratic process with moral objectors and the duped.

Thirdly: It diverts equal blame (literally in the response) to those groups and to the voters, who actually want the bigger evil or the powerful actors enacting it. This presupposes some moral value on active vs. passive behavior, which can be argued.

And lastly: Even if we find a fitting ice-cream substitute like throwing one of the passengers under the still moving bus, or - how another user suggested - braking before driving off the same cliff: The two who voted for that lesser evil also fight the four voters who are against evil harder, than they are fighting the ones who want the bigger evil. Why? Because they'd rather still drive off the cliff than not. And then they turn around and dishonestly shame the anti-driving-off the-cliff crowd for wanting to speed up instead. That is not a very good strategy.

Are they the same? No. But please keep your arguments honest, or you might get the exact opposite reaction from people, than you are hoping.

What everyone forgets is that the actual voting already happened. The bus company, Cliff driving Committee, voted before the bus embarked. They voted for the bus driver to drive off the cliff to cut spending to maintenance and health insurance to the driver and bus. There only so much the riders can say at that point

More like two options: one runs the bus off the cliff while the other sets it on fire. Sure, we'll live longer in the fire scenario. Maybe we can even put it out!

But I'm still looking for the fucking exit.

You would eventually "drive off a cliff" with either party, as they will softlock you into never having better choices, and the overton window will keep moving to the right. The only possibility out is to vote third party.

Not necessary in actual democracies where you have 10+ different parties.

There, abstaining is just an other party. One with a powerful voice telling the politicians that if enough people not vote, it is a big sign that something is wrong with the system and things will need to change to prevent riots.

It is not the same as voting blank, which is also possible. Then your vote gets added to the most popular vote. In a way of saying that you are content with any.

The problem with this is that the choice isn't cliff or ice cream. The choice is the cliff in front of us or the cliff around the corner.

Is that bold in a title?

Remember, no matter how beautiful, morally righteous, or gratifying your strategy is, you should really look at the results

The "drive off the cliff" party vs the "drive off the cliff, but ever so slightly slower and also we'll wave some rainbow flags I guess" party. I know who I'm voting for!

If you want my vote then stop telling me leftists can't win. If the lesser of two evils is the best we can hope for then I'll vote for the cliff with rusted spikes at the bottom. You can attack me over that view but all that will buy you is a self righteous feeling as our bus plunges over the edge.

PS. I've reliably voted the lesser of two evils for as long as I can remember and the outcome is that it always gets worse. A slow swing towards a totalitarian society just makes people feel like everything is normal. Especially to younger people who have never seen a better life for average Americans and don't realize were sliding until its too late. Chuck Shumer isn't going to stop our slide but like the Trump BBB he may fight to change the name.