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submitted 2 weeks ago by griff@lemmings.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Israel’s war in Gaza is chipping away at so much of what we – in the United States but also internationally – had agreed upon as acceptable, from the rules governing our freedom of speech to the very laws of armed conflict. It seems no exaggeration to say that the foundation of the international order of the last 77 years is threatened by this change in the obligations governing our legal and political responsibilities to each other.

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[-] known_unknown@lemmy.world 47 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The Jewish people of the world deserve apology from the government of isreal for using their suffering as a political tool in service of genocide.

In conflating politics and imperialism with lineage and race, the political movement of Zionism sows incalculable hatred into the world in the name of Judaism, so that they can reap it later, when Jewish people suffer as meat shields, as justification for expansionism, and forever-war. Down with this theocratic shell game.

[-] oakey66@lemmy.world 26 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

As someone who is a Jewish refugee in the US, there are more than enough Jewish folks in Israel and around the US who are completely fine with what the government of Israel is doing. They should not be let off the hook. I say this fully realizing that the pro Palestinian sentiment has a large Jewish constituency in the US. So it’s not to paint with a broad brush. But people living in Israel are almost 3/4 in support of what is happening and the only protests in that country were from people who wanted to rescue the hostages but were fully on board with the horrors the country is committing in the name of Jews around the world. The conflation of a religion with an ethnicity will end up making us less safe.

[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

That's not because they're Jewish, though, it's because they've let their ego and pride overcome their empathy for their fellow human beings.

There's plenty of non-Jewish people who are also perfectly happy to profit off the suffering of Palestinians.

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[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

My pro-palestinian praxis is making sure my Jewish neighbours have no reason to even think about aliyah. Jewish safety? It's here. Reverse doikayt.

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[-] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

Zionism is a destructive toxic ideology of fascistic bloodlust and racial supremacy. It is the true descendent of Nazi ideology.

[-] Arkouda@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago

Given that the Zionist movement was founded decades before the Nazi movement, I would say Nazis are the descendants.

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

More accurately, they’re both separate descendants of ethnonationalism which was a popular ideology at that time. And still today, evidently, though it seemed to be in decline for a bit during the post-war period.

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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago

Gaza is the latest in a long line of atrocities committed by countries ostensibly committed to a law of armed conflict.

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria... hell the US interventions in Somalia and the former Yugoslavia were as horrifying as they were criminal. Sometimes we can find an exigent threat that gives us permission to use overwhelming force to brutalize the bad guys - as in Iraq '91 with the Kuwaiti invasion. Other times we just have to make some shit up, as with Grenada or Vietnam.

But this idea that we've had an international order for any of the last 77 years is more a reflection on the quantity of our propaganda than the quality of our international ethics. The total war Israel is conducting in Gaza, while the US hovers overhead threatening to flatten any Egyptian or Jordanian or Lebanese who attempts to intervene, has been historic in the degree to which far more cushy liberal rhetoric has been replaced with full-throated endorsement of ethnic cleansing.

But the policies themselves? We manufactured a famine in Afghanistan shortly after withdrawing the last US troops. We have repeatedly blocked countries with socialist governments from accessing international markets to obtain relief, such as Bangladesh in '74 and Ethiopia ten years later. Somalia has been under near constant assault by US Navy vessels "policing" the most lucrative fishing territories, driving up rates of piracy as a substitute for traditional subsistence farming. Then you've got the '91 famine in N. Korea and the '94 Cuban hunger crisis, both the consequence of US blockades.

Any one of these would be considered a modern-day Holodomor from the perspective of an objective outside observer. Unfortunately, Americans only get to hear about Gaza - and even then only in dribs and drabs on social media or alt-news publications - as they turn away from the traditional corporate-friendly press venues.

[-] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The split is between governments and the general public. I don't know too many individuals who are ok with what is going on. And if they are, they are being awfully quiet about it.

[-] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 3 points 2 weeks ago

You should go and read some daily mail comments on articles about the war (genocide). They're a bunch of frothing murderous horrors.

[-] ogmios@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 weeks ago

Internet comments != real people

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[-] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 2 points 2 weeks ago

Those articles always get a bunch of trolls though.

[-] madlian@lemmy.cafe 2 points 2 weeks ago

The people who are okay with it are the ones who hate the Muslims. Which is a shockingly large number of people and governments.

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Is it? I don't even hear anything out of the Arab states. It should but I don't see much.

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[-] razen@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

When are we going to talk about African wars?

[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago

When the US starts being the primary funder of them.

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[-] TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's hard to find a more Nazi way of doing it. Never forget, Zionists signed the Haavara Agreement with Hitler. You can look up Hitler's quotes on Zionists to find that his problem with them was that *"It doesn't even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there" *- that they weren't being imperial colonialist enough and were just all talk. It's sad to see the meaning of genocide twisted so much to use the genocide of the past to protect the genocide of the present. Hitler's problem with Jews in Germany is that they were staying in Germany, it was not with the Zionists who were trying to take over the reigns of Mandate Palestine.

Sort of what we are seeing now, radical far right groups sticking up for each other even when at face value ideologically they should be opposed - because it's not about the lie they are peddling, it's about forcing people out and conquering occupied territory to take their wealth and resources. Not that these far right leaders will ever admit it, but the shifting stream of excuses, justifications, and contradictions create the outline of what they've even lied to themselves about. They are not people of character.

[-] clutchtwopointzero@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

that's a bit of hyperbole. Gaza is happening because the institutions were already rotten, and not the other way around

[-] 2deck@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Social rot causing systematic rot causing social rot?

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[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Israel does not have a future after this. They're removing their own credibility, and the world knows it. They're nothing but a rogue state at this point, waiting to be put to sleep like a rabid dog.

Like a dying star undergoing supernova. A rampant destruction at the end.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Israel does not have a future after this.

If Germany and Japan could have a future after WW2 - a war they lost categorically - Israel will do just fine in the coming decades, after successfully executing a full ethnic cleanse of some of the more valuable real estate in the Mediterranean.

Israel isn't a rogue state, it's a cat's paw. They're doing the dirty work as a proxy for allies who have wanted to wipe Arabs off that corner of the map for decades. In the end, however, you're going to see western states welcome Israelis back into the fold with open arms, just so long as they can pin this all on Netanyahu and pretend it wasn't a national project with the full support of the Israeli public.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 2 points 1 week ago

All the major western countries still back up israel and.was celebrsting them attacking Iran. Unfortunately israel is not a rogue state yet

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Such a shame that doing anything about it, including asking nicely, would be rabidly antisemitic.

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In repression of counter speech against genocide in almost all western countries to some degree their hand has been shown once again to be prioritizing order over law's rotting corpse.

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[-] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago

I'm pretty sure it's just Trump breaking the world order and eroding the freedom of Americans.

When the Israel-Hamas war is over do you really think everything is going to go back to normal in the US and the rest of the world?

[-] pulsewidth@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Myopic US take. The Israel lobby is all through the western world and has pushed almost every government into the corner of accepting this racist genocidal war lest they be labelled anti-Semitic.

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[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago

Read the article. The most egregious violations occurred during the Biden administration. Biden is better at Trump as a whole, but on the Gaza issue, both have support for Israel locked in at 100%. People often fall for the marketing - Biden virtue signals while Trump vice signals. Biden made a few token show gestures towards Palestinian rights, and Trump gleefully celebrates his cruelty. But in terms of actual tangible support for Israel? Trump's record is a direct continuation of Biden's. The Biden admin for example were the first ones to propose the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. That isn't something Trump came up with - he just vice signaled with his stupid 'Gaza riviera' plan, while Biden's plan for ethnic cleansing was discussed quietly.

[-] icelimit@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago

Could you source the statement about biden's quiet discussion?

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this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2025
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