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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Kestrel@hexbear.net to c/urbanism@hexbear.net

I'm listening to a presentation on a gigantic housing grant my city is applying for. (PRO Grant from HUD, if you're familiar). They're proposing spending millions on regulatory reform to promote missing middle housing, which, ok fine, that's a big task in a major city, but that should already have been done in 2023. Other money would go towards vague stuff like an accelerator program for bipoc affordable developers. After all of that, they're proposing only 120 "deeply affordable" (under 30% ami) units with the grant.

We have a shortfall of tens of thousands of those units in our city, and this multimillion dollar federal grant would fund just 120.

JUST FUCKING BUILD PUBLIC HOUSING CO-OPS honk-enraged

I swear the neoliberal public-private partnership brainworms these people have is beyond terminal. "We have to strategically leverage this potential pot of funding" no you fucking don't

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[-] jabrd@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago

public-private partnership

Looting the nation to stave off a profitability crisis, i.e. neoliberalism. And we’re running out of things to loot

[-] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We're at the "knocking out the drywall and stripping the copper wiring" phase of neoliberalism and our politicians and journalists are all this-is-fine

What a splendid time to be alive

[-] jabrd@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

Honestly I’m one of the people who thinks neoliberalism is over and we just haven’t named/identified the new economic mode yet. The coppers been stripped and a new profitability crisis presents itself

[-] Autonomarx@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

You are correct that neoliberalism has already ended. Check out Samir Amin if you haven't already https://piped.video/watch?v=EEq8OK4BUyM&t=0

[-] Ildsaye@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

“At the end of capitalism, which is eager to outlive its day, there is Hitler. At the end of formal humanism and philosophic renunciation, there is Hitler.” - Aimé Césaire, Discourse on Colonialism

[-] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

Hey, you know what? Fuck it, federal rent cap pegging rent to 1/3 of monthly social security payments.

[-] Dolores@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

liberals are so confounded by the words "rent control" they generally don't have a canned response even

[-] BioClock@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

Usually, the canned response in my experience is just “controlling prices is evil communism and no one will rent a house!!!!”

[-] tripartitegraph@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I totally remember reading articles about how rent control will make things worse a few years back. I can't remember the arguments but even as a lib they seemed pretty hollow and very "just trust me bro please bro no rent control trust me man"

Lmao: "The economists are right, and the populists are wrong." Jesus fucking Christ can we just house people for fucks sake god fucking dammit.

[-] Dolores@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

it takes like 2 seconds to find price controls of some variety in the jurisdiction tho, so its easy to needle in on why they think housing specifically shouldnt be.

my favorite helpful fact with price controls is the french revolution (which overturned feudalism and instituted a capitalist system in france) has had price controls on bread ever since

[-] Parsani@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

yea

The solution was, remains, and will always be public housing.

The number of conversations I've had with even "progressive" people who have somehow been convinced that public housing won't work is startling. But tbh, even I am unsure if a neoliberalized empty husk of a government would even be able to do it today without dumping money into public-private partnerships which would fail to accomplish anything but lining their pockets with cash.

[-] Wheaties@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago

The frustrating thing is all the extra time and work that goes into setting up public-private partnerships. It would be cheaper and easier for a given city to just commission a construction company to build something on the land they have. Spending money is spending money, private or public. Local governments really have to go out their way and put a lot of work into spending money ineffectively.

[-] coeliacmccarthy@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

not even coming close is their job

[-] Kestrel@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

no no no, they're actually allies and advocates for potential pathways to human dignity

[-] Poison_Ivy@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

Oh no, they are

They keep on insisting that allowing private developers with 3% of units being aFfOrDaBlE hOuSiNg (read: 1% under market rate for the area) will eventually lead to housing prices going down by a process that is NOT TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS so please don't call it that or I'll get very mad bc thats what REPUBLICANS do >:( not me a smurt libraul, but also I cannot point to a single example of this happening in any meaningful capacity so just trust me bro, just one more luxury housing development bro cmon just one more luxury housing development.

And no we can't have public housing like Vienna and Singapore which work incredibly well >:( bc thats authoritarianism or something and we need that money for the 50% of the city budget that goes to the cops!

[-] Kestrel@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

NOT TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS

maybe-later-kiddo

"It's called market filtration sweetie and it takes time"

[-] Poison_Ivy@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

Im sure itll filter in aaannnnnny day now

[-] gregheffley@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

I assume it’s relatively more or less the same everywhere but in my city, it is COMPLETELY 10000% controlled by Real Estate and investing.

[-] Beaver@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because they are almost entirely funded by property taxes, the actions of City governments make way more sense if you think of them as a joint-stock company owned by local land owners. There is selection pressure on elected city officials to govern in a way that increases the property value of homeowners and property developers. Not only do those officials get the support of those land owners, but taking actions that increase property values also have the effect of bringing in more revenue, which in turn gives them more freedom of action to do things that improve their support among their base of support among land owners. That's the fundamental reason why supply-side YIMBY approaches to creating adequate housing are doomed.

[-] barrbaric@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

Yeah I support public-private partnerships: where the public sector takes all the money of private investors and in exchange they get to live.

[-] cricbuzz@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

The 'supply side' answers to this problem are completely empty platitudes. Developers will continue to tell us that building more units will drive down prices but we also need laws that these need to be kept at a certain price and must be filled with people who need housing.

In so many major cities, these luxury units are being built while sitting unoccupied. Does not help anyone

[-] Poison_Ivy@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

BC we know how much landlords enjoy lowering rent when faced with reality

[-] Wheaties@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Very very occasionally I see headlines like, New affordable units with rent partially covered from [CITY/STATE] in [LOCAL AREA]

and buried in the article it tuns out it's only, like, five new units. Usually out of a few hundred that exist in the same building.

[-] stigsbandit34z@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

public housing fails because it is criminally underfunded

“See, this is why government is bad and we need the free market”

stalin-gun-1 stalin-gun-2

[-] regul@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

Charitably, if it's a grant from the feds, they probably wouldn't be selected if the application indicated that it would be used to build public housing.

[-] Kestrel@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're probably right. But the city could still be using it's own funds to do so literally any time. It's a matter of priorities.

[-] regul@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

Agree, but a lot of places put huge restrictions on public housing in the 20th century. I know in California it's unconstitutional to use public money to own and/or operate new public housing.

[-] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

What if it was a "private" company (local collective) that was given grants from the city to build "private" (rented at-cost, i.e. property taxes + maintenance + staff salaries + building insurance) residential units?

[-] regul@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah. This is often what happens, but replace collective with non-profit.

[-] RobnHood@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

The conservative decades long campaign to eliminate any and all forms of housing has worked so well that even city planners and administrators who want to build public housing are prevented by mayors and city councils. The failure of Pruitt Igor, which was caused solely by racism, will alway outshine the extremely successful public housing projects in the mind of the median voter.

this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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