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[-] rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

I'm not very familiar with the Torah, or many descriptions of this layout of Earth so forgive me if this is a stupid question -- what are the columns of the Earth for? They seem to end before the abyss ends, if this diagram is accurate to the descriptions, and so don't seem to actually be supporting the Earth the way you'd typically expect from a "column".

They just sort of seem like rock extrusions with nothing else going for them. Are they supposed to connect to anything at the other end?

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

Woah, woah, there. What's with all this thought and attention to details?

[-] InputZero@lemmy.world 0 points 12 hours ago

Hell, they connect to hell.

IIRC Judaism doesn't really have the concept of a physical hell

[-] rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world 1 points 11 hours ago

I assumed "Hell" was what is labelled "Sheol" here -- what's Sheol?

[-] Typotyper@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 day ago

They’re close but not quite there yet

Here is the true world as it is written in scriptures

[-] GraniteM@lemmy.world 5 points 13 hours ago

Is there an in-universe explanation for how the Discworld has an atmosphere?

[-] P1k1e@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago
[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 day ago

Based on the earliest beliefs in Jesus, he was crucified in the firmament, not on earth. Makes sense for an apocalyptical sect of Jews (Essenes). John the Baptist ("Now John was clothed with camel’s hair and wore a leather belt around his waist and ate locusts and wild honey."), Peter, and James the Just were all likely Essenes.

Go check out those Dead Sea Scrolls and learn some things about the group that likely founded your faith before it got highjacked by Paul, who completely bastardized it.

While you're at it, learn about Marcion Sinope, the first to publish a New Testament.

[-] edgemaster72@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

Now John was clothed with camel’s hair and wore a leather belt around his waist and ate locusts and wild honey

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago

A leather belt with an onion. It all makes sense now. Consider me a convert.

[-] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 18 points 1 day ago

How did the the ancient hebrews know about shale oil?

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

It's the land of the dead but they did actually know about oil trapped in rock then, shale oil extraction specifically is first referenced in the 10th century by an Arab researcher.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 1 day ago

That's a bit late for the Talmud. Other ancient sources do at least mention the ground oozing gross oil sometimes, although use was limited without distillation, which also originated with the Arabs.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

That's just extraction from shale, we've been using ground seeps for most of human history. Sumerians were using oil and oil products and that's like around 1000 years before the talmud.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I didn't say no uses, the Natives near where I live liked to seal canoes that way, but without further processing crude oil isn't a particularly great fuel, for example.

What were the Arabs doing with it? At least in the European empires, lamps weren't a big use until after the whale oil era.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

Pitch/bitumen whatever you'd like to call it seals wood boats will enough we've been using it since the time Sumer.

It catches fire easily so pretty well anything that could be lit. Chinese records say oil itself was being used for lighting in the first century bce.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

You're looking at the Wikipedia too, I guess? It says "fuel", I assume that means a disgusting smoky burn barrel situation. I'd place it in the same category as peat, where maybe there were cultures that ended up exploiting it for heating and cooking, but anyone with a choice didn't. You're definitely not using crude in a nice little oil lantern; that's why we invented refining in the first place.

To answer my own question, Greek fire and asphalt for paving. Maybe the cost of using a medieval-style alembic or an inability to generate more than two fractions prevented more advanced uses. It sounds like they were close, though. You could write a cool alt-history about that.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Yeah, ok so if you can do the research then you know oil has been in continuous use for all of known written history. What they used it for is largely irrelevant to knowing about it and moreover equating "deep pit of stinky, sticky, goop that catches on fire seemingly at random" with evil and moreover hell analogs.

[-] cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 day ago

Definitely need to invest in a boat

[-] Klear@quokk.au 8 points 1 day ago
[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 day ago

Big enough for one gigantic multi-ecosystem orgy.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 day ago

(Reasonable genetic diversity not included, fuck your parents or siblings I guess)

[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago

Gene pool the size (& quality) of the sweat & santorum puddle after the orgy.

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[-] Kolanaki@pawb.social 7 points 1 day ago

Columns of the Earth

[-] Dirk@lemmy.ml 26 points 1 day ago

So there’s oceans at the bottom and above us? Are we in some kind of bubble now? What happens if the firmament leaks water down into the bubble? Will it fill up, and where does the air go? Has the Waters above the firmament ocean a surface? And whats above that surface?

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 day ago

It's literally what happens in the story of Noah.

where does the air go?

Hmm. They had bellows, and knew what air is, so that's actually a period-appropriate question. Maybe Sheol can be pressurised, or maybe Noah just didn't notice the air getting thicker.

The rest is just a version of "what's outside the universe", which applies to real cosmology too.

[-] witheyeandclaw@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 day ago

The firmament did open and leak. That's why we don't live as long as Methusaleh anymore, silly.

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[-] cravl@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 day ago

I'm pretty sure the “waters above” are referring to clouds, not a fricking sky ocean. 😅 But yeah, Old Testament can sound weird without doing a lot of study to understand what the symbolism is. (Which I have done very little of, to be fair.)

Well considering the main creation story in other nearby cultures at the time also say the world was originally all water, I’d imagine it isn’t so much symbolism as it is the fact that water falls from the sky occasionally and typically looks blue.

The Enūma Eliš mentions that originally there was just water. Much like the creation story in Genesis the gods eventually separate the waters and expose land. Also curiously, the story is recorded across seven tablets and has a few more similarities with Genesis and other aspects of Judaism like man being a fallen creature (though due to man being made from the corpse of an evil god or because the gods were worried, not due to women lol)

Also, the oldest creation story I’m aware of is The Sumerian Creation Myth which also references the “cosmic freshwater ocean” and says man lives in the lower region of this ocean. The noise of humanity annoys the main god so he sends the flood from the upper ocean. But one god warns a man of this so the man builds a boat and fills it with animals. Remind you of any bible story?

Point is that even the Torah is a likely derivative work combining more ancient myths from other cultures. Because the original cultures reference the waters more as an actual physical ocean in a non-symbolic way, Id say the Bible story was meant to be literal. Almost all symbolism derived from the stories therein is likely interpretation only.

I suppose the Hebrew scholars collecting these stories could have viewed them in a more symbolic way, but the first text I referenced is a few years younger than the Torah and still references oceans in a more physical way. So, I’d imagine their meanings were initially similar.

[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Ok, but clouds, damns, waters above, or sky oceans - why would anyone write down the sun & stars being in front of the clouds/sky river?

Wouldn't ppl reading that just like, you know, look up & go 'well that's not what I see, what else here is bs'?

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[-] Hadriscus@jlai.lu 11 points 1 day ago

Honestly if this were like Tolkien/LeGuin-style fantasy, it would be considered good lore !

[-] drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 11 hours ago

I think an open world videogame with this sort of world would be really neat.

I mean, this is already basically how videogames work, but it could be made diagetic and stylized like this.

[-] cloudless@piefed.social 12 points 1 day ago

Still more feasible than flat earth.

[-] maniacalmanicmania@aussie.zone 12 points 1 day ago

Is the abyss just more water?

Did James Cameron plagerise the Torah?

[-] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 17 points 1 day ago

It should be fine. The copyright expired some thousand years ago.

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[-] Waffle@infosec.pub 8 points 1 day ago

I'll be in the Sheol, if y'all need me!

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this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2025
186 points (95.6% liked)

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