This is a terrible map, lumping neutral and opposed together? I am against chat control but ffs we don't need more misleading media with the internet already dying under waves of automated misinformation
Agreed
If that graphic is accurate, the media didn't "get" anyone. Seems some countries are actually gun-ho with the elimination of privacy, and its a movement that doesn't die with one failed vote.
Y'all are getting too fucking comfortable. Authoritarianism is always around the corner, even when things feel safe.
What kind of shit take is this?
Media made people aware of ongoing bullshit, people reacted and put pressure on their governments and somehow "media got to us"?
If anything it didn't pass because of media attention.
Yeah, keeping the public in the dark so people against it aren't there to voice their opinion is how these like this get passed. Media attention to inform the public was a good thing.
What kind of shit take is this?
The lemmy.ml kind, check OP’s profile
Isn't this how liberal democracies are supposed to work? How exactly did "the media" get the better of "us"?
Good thing happens.
wAkE Up ShEePlE
Media covinced people that it was coming and it didn't - my understanding of the argument.
This is exactly the dumb shit take from y2k.
I Still hear people go on about how "it was supposed to be this big thing and then nothing happened! Smart people are so dumb!"
Yeah nothing happened because a lot of smart people worked very hard to fix the goddamn problem, you fucking shitwaffle.
Here? "You dum dums got so worked up thinking it would pass and then it didn't, so the freak out was for nothing!" yeah it didn't pass because a lot of Europeans got very upset about their governments trying to spy on them harder than ever.
I'm not European, so I can't say how people talked about it openly on the metro with random strangers, but online? People were vocal and pissed. A PROPER government (lol can we have some of that functioning democracy please) listens to its people. This was them listening to the people.
The people's reaction was appropriate, and necessary. And shouldn't be lessened just because "lol you guys got so propaganda'd and it was obviously never gonna happen and I knew cause I'm so smart" is quite the take on things.
It reminds me of when climate hoaxers claim the hole in the ozone layer shrinking proves those campaigning to fix it were just fearmongering.
I work on software security (not it/infosec) and deal with this constantly. Bad stuff didn't happen so we can scale back security, right? No, shit for brains, either the bad stuff didn't happen because we prevented it, or the bad stuff just hasn't happened yet because the vulnerability wasn't discovered, or worse still, the bad stuff DID happen and we haven't been informed yet. Either way, please do not make my job harder.
I believe it should be all over the media to ensure that it never passes. Democracy dies in darkness. Name and shame those who supported it.
"Because there was push back and the EU decided to not go forward with a vote and be embarrassed, that means they never really wanted it at all" is one of the dumbest takes I've heard in a minute.
Let's not protest terrible ideas to not embarrass facists (who may or may not be part of your/our government) or what's supposed to be the message here?
The message here is: "don't believe when people start screaming that the EU is a fascist organisation that wants to subjugate the population".
Because there was A LOT of that online when Chat Control reared its head.
The difference between a fascist government and a democratic government can be distressingly thin, something we should all be aware of by now.
In this case, the EU has just proven it is currently on the right side of that divide. When extremely unpopular and authoritarian ideas were considered, the public felt able to voice their disapproval and the government felt they had to listen. That is a crucial step. Good for you all.
Sadly it likely will continue to require major work to keep the public on guard against future attempts like this one, but that’s life.
Not going to downvote this because the source article is useful, but OP’s take is ludicrous. Have we really reached the point where ALL media is propaganda?
It might be time to unplug society and plug it back in again.
Have we really reached the point where ALL media is propaganda?
Always has been.
Proving even on Lemmy, you and me are extremly prone to propaganda.
What? LOL Who do you think is pushing said "propaganda" to make people fear Chat Control unnecessarily?
And we got told so many times, that EU now wants Chat Control. But it was a big fat lie.
It was demonstrably not a lie. There were so many regions in support of it that it was dangerously close to passing.
I'm thinking this post is the propaganda. Really really lazy propaganda.
Don't worry, it'll be back again in a few months with a new coat of paint.
There were so many regions in support of it that it was dangerously close to passing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but - it wasn't "close to passing", it was "close to being passed on as a proposal for a law", requiring then a formal vote, no?
So, even if Germany retained its support and the motion went forward, it could still get smashed during the vote.
I’m thinking this post is the propaganda. Really really lazy propaganda.
I think you're misreading it and badly.
I read it as: "don't believe those who panicked that the EU is a fascist dictatorship that wants to subjugate the population, because it's still a democracy where the people have the power, as proven by Chat Control being thrown in the bin yet again".
it wasn't "close to passing", it was "close to being passed on as a proposal for a law", requiring then a formal vote, no?
It's the same thing. Why would a country show support for the legislation and then vote against it later?
I read it as: "don't believe those who panicke
This is such a charitable reading that it's probably fair to assume this is OPs alt account.
It’s the same thing.
It absolutely is not. I don't know, maybe you're more familiar with the US federal system (pre-Trump, because that's a different can of worms)? If so: imagine if the president (in this case having no ability to issue executive orders, mind you) says "we should do X". That's all well and good, but the X must still go through the Senate and Congress, where it might fail.
Why would a country show support for the legislation and then vote against it later?
Well, because "a country" is not a singular hive-mind, is it? The government says "yes", but their own Parliament might say "no".
Governments have no say in what goes on in the EU Commission or Parliament. I mean, sure, most of the time the MEPs coming out of the government-aligned parties will have similar votes, but the EU elections aren't in-step with most countries' elections, so it's never a 1:1 translation. And even then, many MEPs will just vote on their own.
This is such a charitable reading that it’s probably fair to assume this is OPs alt account.
Holy fuck, watch out when opening the fridge, mate, OP might jump out of it!
Yeah... no.
Germany switched to opposed partially because people knew about it and contacted their representatives.
They contacted their representatives because they heard about it.. through the media.
I contacted my representatives in Spain and they gave two fucks about it, they still positioned as "in favour".
yeah im in Ireland, anything positoned to be about about protecting kids from sexual predators will pass here.
all taxes should from now on be paid to you, to protect kids.
What kind of nonsense is this writeup? Media "got to me"? Look, you see Denmark? You see how it's in support of chat control?
Yeah, that's my country. So it's a rather serious issue here.
Oh no lemmy is a reactionary craphole that despises nuanced discussion? Well atleast it's a place to call people facists.
Troll post. Not falling for it. Bye.
Maybe I don't understand, but the fact there is a vote for it (or even just talk about it) is enough for me to warrant everyones immediate action.
I'm glad the media got this to our attention asap, because we were able to react quickly (and stop this.. hopefully its stopped and wont continue or come back).
Edit: commented then read others, think ppl agree with this and they say it better than I have.
P.s. i really don't like this post and hopefully it doesn't change anyones mind about action on this type of stuff in the future.. we need action and to keep fightijg to keep our freedoms.
"let your motto be 'eternal vigilance is the price we pay for liberty.'"
Freedom dies in the silence of the many at the hands of the few. We must always be adamant with opposition, because it’s hard to undo what has been done. The easiest way to put the genie back in the bottle is never letting it out in the first place.
Jesus Christ, you think this will be the last attempt?
The fact that these guys even proposed (and more than once) something that so profoundly violates the fundamental right to privacy of European citizens is cause for great alarm.
OP's post seems like propaganda to me and of the lazy kind.
People here are very groupthink.
When Tesla was at like 250 in the stock market just six months ago, I said that the stock will recover very soon. But the groupthink here was totally agreeing with eachother that Tesla is gone forever, and people kept posting Elon doing nazi gestures and saying they are done.
Now, the stock is over 400. But no posts is made about that and how maybe the groupthink was completely wrong. Instead the next thing is ongoing.
We have evidence around us all the time how the group is completely wrong in their assumptions. Majority opinion is not right by default.
EU is a democracy with different opinions, and when a small group of facists tries to read your chats, it does not represent the EU opinion.
But the whole media got you thinking so. Proving even on Lemmy, you and me are extremly prone to propaganda.
This is what the EU democracy opinion was as of July 2024 BTW, before the "media got to you":
That image is the thumbnail for OP's link LOL
Good news. But I'm downvoting that post. OP's living in reverse crying-wolf land, it seems.
First, Chat Control got further than previous attempts, with a bigger scope than ever. Being worried about that is not the result of propaganda.
Second, a lot of countries where on board, including Germany. Stuff changed after lot of feedback. You can be cynical all you want arguing that "people's voice don't matter" and saying there's no causality there, but people made themselves heard, and thing moved. There's no telling what would have happened if they didn't.
The proposal being ultimately shot down (this time!) does not mean, at ALL, that it wasn't a very dangerous one.
This post reminds me of a bunch of the "y2k scare was a hoax and a waste of money!" stuff from back in the day. With a bunch of people not realizing how much shit was fixed and what massive success it all was.
Second, a lot of countries where on board, including Germany
That means nothing. The governments (which the stances of were being counted) have not that much to say on how the MEPs will vote.
For example, if the Polish government was in favour of this, half of their MEPs would've still been against.
You can be cynical all you want arguing that “people’s voice don’t matter” and saying there’s no causality there, but people made themselves heard, and thing moved
I think he's arguing the exact opposite, mate. He literally said that:
EU is a democracy with different opinions, and when a small group of facists tries to read your chats, it does not represent the EU opinion
There was a lot of panic about the EU being an oppressive "over-government", trying to subjugate the population like the UK government is doing. That propaganda never made sense to me, but it felt very much like something the pro-russian mob would be spewing because it sows division and chaos, decreasing people's appreciation of the EU, stoking exit views.
We will have to fight Chat Control again and again...
Mass Surveillance should be blocked at the constitutional level in all countries.
On another point, my country, France is in a very deep political turmoil right now, so thanks for the robust response of our German friends that was definitely critical. I wish we could have mobilized better in France but we are struggling to just have a working government right now...
Mass surveillance is a very bad solution to a real problem. The more years pass, the bigger are the chances of a war with equal adversary or worse, a conventional normal war or not. And the real problem would be cutting the flow of intelligence and control messages the potential adversary possesses.
If that potential adversary is US or close to US, this would require either going offline with jamming all communication over EU borders and other such things, while not doing mass surveillance, so that nothing got through, or mass surveillance to proactively filter out and find the specific actors leaking intelligence and neutralize them, while not having the expenses associated with the previous variant. Those expenses would be such that they could kill the EU economies very quickly, not even talking about protests and such turmoil that what you have now won't feel anything deep.
Just playing devil's advocate.
It's either that or limiting flow of information over EU borders, which, honestly, is not so bad, except without wide popular understanding and support it would lead to what I said.
The fact that wars are rarely declared in our time really hurts.
And if you think this is nuts, then you haven't been paying attention in history classes.
What does any of this have to do with the government forcing backdoors into otherwise encrypted chats? The point is that nobody but the recipient should be able to read it, not even governments.
It didn't pass because people pressured Germany to reject it. If Germany had stayed undecided they would definitely have had a vote on Chat Control and potentially passed it.
Are you mad that people got mad? Anger is not a subtle political instrument, a win is a win.
What a bizarre take. The EU council is backing down - they do want chat control but each time they propose it they meet resistance and back down. Then they come back again and try again.
To suggest the public reaction is overblown and media manipulation is bizarre. This is the 3rd or 4th time the EU has attempted to get this through. Just because they chickened out of a vote doesn't mean the politicians don't want this.
In a democracy votes happen. In the EU they keep resurrecting this terrible idea hoping to get it through but then backing away if they don't think they can win. They know if there was an actual vote it likely would put an end to his.
Also the EU council is the antithesis of a democracy. It is not directly elected - instead it's a club of the heads of states of all the countries in the EU. It just represents who happens to be in charge of each country, and gives equal weights to all those countries regardless of their population size. The EU has a Parliament but it's a fig leaf of democracy as so much power is held in bodies like the Council and the Commission (which is 1 post per state and horse traded not elected).
So please don't make this out as a sign that EU democracy works. If EI democracy was working properly they would have listened the first time, and they'd have moved to a directly elected system for the executive Council and commission years ago.
The EU gets too much of a free pass for "not being America" but it's got huge problems that need fixing to make it an actual democracy.
There's no media about the EU in USA. Nobody gives a crap. The "news" is all just fascist propaganda about how genocide is good and windmills cause tornados.
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
